Topic: Monart SA with silver & gold mica

[chopin-liszt]

 

Mica can be made up from several diffferent formulas - there's a description of the different metals that can be incorporated at different points on the molecule in the first link I posted - but none of the metals are silver or gold.

I imagine different chemical compositions of mica might have different colours/light reflecting/refracting properties.

[glassobsessed]

Plenty of Mica used in Bohemian and Czech glass, here is one item stuffed with it (to great effect):
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51869.0.html

John

[chopin-liszt]

 
Doh, I'd forgotten all about that jug, thanks for keeping me straight, John. 
So in Eastern Europe, in the early part of the 20th century, behind the Iron Curtain, mica was used rather more extensively than it was in the rest of Europe.
But the Ysarts were quite possibly the only ones using it on the western side of the Iron Curtain?

[glassobsessed]

I doubt it somehow, just on general principle really.   As soon as we make an assumption an example crops up that contradicts.

No doubt many Victorian glass makers used mica and it would have been no secret in the 20th century. Sowerby for one, two posy vases: http://www.flickr.com/photos/art-of-glass/6029998615/in/set-72157627404389474/
 

[chopin-liszt]

I thought that was an image of two elephant's behinds!
Shows what I know about old stuff then doesn't it? 
Zilch!

I honestly thought the use of mica was something highly unusual to the point of being scarce. I certainly haven't seen much on my travels.

It's how I got taken in by the unknown Romanian stuff that isn't Monart. I saw mica, and that was enough!

[Lustrousstone]

Can nobody see what I see on Roberta's vase?

I think looking at the photos, coloured frit has been used over the blue because there are slightly brownish patches and not just over the mica and that's what's making the mica look gold.

Mica from a batch from a given supplier will have the same composition because it will have come from the same mine/quarry though the possibility of impurities can't be ruled out.

Mica is quite easy to tell from silver or other metal foil because it has pieces with straight edges and often square shapes. There are wide spaces between pieces. There are no crack shapes between pieces. The pieces appear "relatively" large, i.e., not powder, and are not formed from much larger squares or other shapes that have broken up, though several may clump together in "blobs". The pieces in the Sowerby vases are large flakes, not the "Christmas glitter" size commonly seen. If they were foil they would have "cracked"; see my Mike Hunter paperweight linked below.

Mica is very common in Bohemian Victorian glass
Here is is only in the transparent stripes http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=1570
Here is all over but under amber glass
http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=1526

It is possible to use "silver" metal foil inside glass. It is seen sometimes in Murano glass as here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Murano-Glass-1950-039-s-Silver-Leaf-Murrine-Canes-Bowl-/360884865699 and Mike Hunter has used it here along with gold foil http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=443

I do not know if it is silver or another metal.

[orangeglass]

The brownish patches aren't that - it's just the camera / lighting altering the way the coloured enamels look.
It's exactly like Gary's first & second  pictures.

just a thought to throw in to the mix - we all know the story of Mica being bought at Woolies and only when it was available at Christmas, but do you think this is one of those times when the story has a degree of accuracy but then becomes "the only story"?

Is it possible that the Ysarts or even Isobel Moncrieff first bought it at Woolies just to try out? And when they decided it worked in the glass and wanted to carry on using it they could have found another supplier for it at some time? Which would then mean it would have come from different places and had a different composition therefore the differing colours?

I know in my previous work as a designer this is often what would happen - you pick things up often locally, experiment with them - if you use them in production you find a supplier.

just a thought anyway 

Roberta

[chopin-liszt]

Using silver foil is an incredibly difficult thing to do, because of its proclivity to react with the glass.
William Walker and Michael Harris developed a method together for Azurene in 1978, which won a Design Council award in '79. It has been disseminated and in use since then. Allistair Malcolm is another contemporary artist who uses it to incredible effect.
I would imagine its use in Murano would have been one of the "ancient secrets".
I have no idea if the methods are the same or not.

I do know Mike Hunter has said; "There is no correct way of doing anything - you just do what works."

[Lustrousstone]

Your third picture quite clearly shows coloured enamel (it looks brownish in the photo) over the mica - some of the mica bits are actually part silvery and part "brownish".

I doubt Monart glass used enough volume of mica to make it work going anywhere other than Woolies for a few packets. A little goes a very long way.

[Paul S.]

quote from Sue  ....... "There is no correct way of doing anything - you just do what works."   ....   I think that's one of the best truisms I've heard in a long time.