Topic: Grape and vine decanter Georgian or Chinese date help please.

[brucebanner]

This is a very common pattern on glass dated from the Georgian to Edwardian period, so i'm thinking it was used a lot over the years, but these bit's of glass crop up often they always seem badly made almost garden shed stuff, this one does not sit even on it's base and has a Chinese style ground pontil although i'm sure it has some age, it has a good quality Victorian cut glass stopper which is not original. There is a ribbed optic look to the glass that is on the inner surface of the glass, the outer is smooth. It might be impossible to date but does anyone have any ideas?.

I do need a good Decanter book so any recommendations welcome.

It's 7 inches in height without the stopper and 5 inches at the widest point.

[Lustrousstone]

Glass caters to as many purse sizes as possible...so quality has always been variable. Everyone demanding perfection is a modern thing though. Its certainly not a modern decanter.

PS a fair amount of Walsh Walsh has a snapped pontil mark and that was never cheap.

[Paul S.]

Not an easy one to pigeon-hole Chris - certainly an uncommon body shape, and smaller than usual, I'd suggest.           With the handle, and the grape and vine engraving, then possibly a claret jug, but the shape isn't conforming, and although the trefoil shaped lip would suggest art nouveau (1890 - 1920 ish) again the body shape is not what you'd expect.

Possibly a table wine/claret decanter, rather than a full size example.?        Assume no sign of matching Nos. on the rim/neck?
Sorry but I'm not seeing Christine's snapped pontil scar  -  to me it simply looks to be a case of rough grinding, but I'd agree not modern as in the last 20 years.

Certainly not Georgian as in pre 1830 - no idea as to origin - first half C20 possibly, but not sure.
Base and neck wear should be a better guide here - after all, these things were used.

I think grape and vine went on longer than you're suggesting  -  possibly to the middle of the C20 even.
sorry this is rather vague, let's hope someone else has a better idea.

Probably the most useful book is Andy McConnell's 'The Decanter - An Illustrated History of Glass from 1650' - 670 odd indispensable pages, but expensive.

[Lustrousstone]

Sorry but I'm not seeing Christine's snapped pontil scar 

I was just pointing out the quality of the pontil scar doesn't always relate to the cost or quality of the item

[Paul S.]

then I withdraw my comments and apologize unreservedly