Topic: Glass creamer with registry mark - help dating? ID = Sowerby

[hegeman]

 Hi and greetings from Finland. I found this old glass creamer from the flea market. There is some damages, but I bought it because It is my first creamer with the english registry mark. I have tried to find out the dating but I think there is some weird codes. For example, I am wondering why there is number 7 both in the upper part and in the right part. I have read other one should be the letter. Can someone help me? What would be the age and the producer? Thank you.

[Paul S.]

hi welcome to the GMB.

You are right about the appearance of two '7's making things confusing.

Between 1842 and 1884, there were two distinct groups of glass registrations, both of which use the diamond lozenge as the British Board of Trade mark to indicate year, month, day of month and parcel No., and from these details it should be possible to locate the maker and date when the design was FIRST Registered  -  not the date of manufacture.

The first group - 1842 to 1867 - use letters to indicate the year (at the top) and the month (shown left), with day of month (shown right) and parcel no. (at bottom) in figures.           So as you have a 7 at the top
this would seem to suggest yours is not from this first group.

The second group - 1868 to 1884 - use letters for the year (to the right) and the month (at bottom), and figures for the day of month (at top) and parcel No. (to the left).          Since yours has a '7' to the right then this suggests yours is not in the later group.

that is the theory - but not helping here, so let's hope one of the really clever people who collect pressed creamers from the C19 will recognize the pattern.
If this gets us nowhere, we will try other permutations of your details to locate the maker

[glassobsessed]

Could the 7 on the right be a T?

John

[Anne]

Hello hegeman and welcome to the board! You set us something of a puzzle to solve there, but I think I've cracked it.

Having given this some thought, and waded through the lists of glass RD nos checking parcel numbers (it had to be a 7 as they are the only digits shown!)  I think this is a Sowerby design, registered on 7 November 1872 - no. either 267742 or 267743. It looks like the characters at each side have been swapped over to the wrong side, hence the confusion!

We have a footed bowl in the Registered Design album with this registration so, so we can compare the pattern!    http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-19241

May we add your creamer photo to the album for future reference also please?

[Paul S.]

not sleepy again Anne   -  well done and big thanks for the detective work - I had a feeling it might have been Sowerby..............  fortunately, it's only rarely that we get this sort of error on the lozenges.

This design does look to be Registration No. 267742 with the date you mention, and seems to appear first on a bowl of some description as can be seen in the attached picture from the National Archives - showing this pattern of vertical lines of diamonds.           No idea of the size of the original bowl though.
Like this creamer, many factories produced a variety of shapes subsequent to the original date of Registration, all of which were decorated with the original pattern/design, and made perhaps over a number of years, and most (or perhaps all) carrying the same Registration diamond lozenge details (or simply a No. only if Registered after January 1884).             This design of vertical rows of diamonds for Rd. 267742 looks to have been used on at least two other shapes...i.e. this creamer and a sugar, although there may be others we've not yet found.

Registration 267743 is unrelated............  it shows a shallow bowl with type of rope pattern style lipping, a clear body and star on base.     If anyone wants to see this, please ask, and I can watermark and post later today.

This creamer, and Christine Young's sugar showing in your link, were separate shapes produced subsequent to the original bowl in November 1872  -  although I've no idea how much later.
Perhaps someone else might know this by checking the dates of their first appearances in the Sowerby catalogues.
Both 267742 and 267743 are included in Simon Cottle's booklet 'SOWERBY - GATESHEAD GLASS', although neither Registration is provided with a description as to shape or purpose.

Anyway, great piece of Victorian tableware, and a good find hegeman.

As usual a big thanks to the Trustees of the National Archives at Kew for their continued permission to use these images.

[agincourt17]

Nice detective work, Anne, and thank you, Paul, for showing the design representation .

Sowerby RD 267742 was registered on 7 November 1872 - Parcel 7. The sugar bowl is shown as pattern number L1042 on page 47 of their Pattern Book XI (1885) - see photo.

The creamer is not shown as such in the pattern book.

An early Sowerby design registration (only their 8th registration, and well before the use of the Sowerby peacock head trademark).

An uncommon piece (presumably because creamers and sugars were often used at mealtimes and were thus likely to suffer damage or breakage easily). I’ve certainly never seen a creamer in this pattern before.

Fred.

[agincourt17]

I think the only other Sowerby pattern 1042 shape shown in Pattern Book XI of 1885 is a stemmed sweetmeat (on page 44), with a shape very like the sugar but with a shallower bowl  - see photo. 

Fred.

[Paul S.]

thanks for that information Fred.                This can now presumably be moved over to 'British'

[hegeman]

Hi everyone and thank you for your fine work to identify the background of my creamer! It is nice to get this kind of information from you - it is too difficult to try it myself. Now I know the producer and dating. It would be nice to know how this creamer came to Finland.... and what kind if things it has seen But, now I can only use my imagination. Maybe some sailors from Finland has brought it here? This came to my mind because I have one porcelain dinner plate with the english rekistry mark, and in the picture side there is theme from the Finnish paper money from the 1860's. In the one museum website (http://www.nautelankoski.net/kaudenesine.php) has told the history of this plate; and there they says sailors have brought them. This plate have made in Birmingham 1875-83 By Lindner & Co. But it is an other story!
Nice to know my creamer is quite a rare item. Anne, of course you can use my photos if you need them in your archive etc. I can also send better quality photos if it is better.

[Anne]

Hegeman's images have been added to the RD album with his consent, thank you!