Topic: Sowerby Green Malachite and minor errors in Cottle

[agincourt17]

Thank you, Paul.

I await the design representations for RDs 310595/6 with interest.

I must commend Simon Cottle for his pioneering work in correlating so many of the Sowerby pattern numbers and RD numbers - it truly was a mammoth task, and the errors that are surfacing now are few in relation to his total effort.  Thanks to the GMB and its members, hopefully the task of correlating the remainder should be almost completed within the next century or so!

Fred.

[Paul S.]

attached are the National Archive Representations for Rd. Nos. 310595 and 310596  -  presumably I'm wrong, but regret I don't see any real connection with either of these and factory pattern 1231.

Assume this thread will be moved to British...

If there are others you might need Fred, I shall be back at the screen later this afternoon some time.   

[agincourt17]

Thank you for the pix, Paul.

RD 310595 corresponds closely with the Sowerby pattern 1221 covered butter shown on page 6 of pattern book XI (1885).

RD 310596 corresponds closely with the Sowerby pattern 1221 covered sugar shown on page 48 of pattern book XI (1885). The is also an Sowerby pattern 1221 uncovered sugar shown on page 59 of pattern book XI (1885).

I attach a photo of the Sowerby pattern 1221 open sugar (plus matching creamer) for comparison, both pieces bearing the ‘correct’ lozenge for 31 May 1877 – Parcel 9.

I notice that Jenny Thompson (page 30) describes the RD 310595/6 designs as for ‘Angular bar shaped handles’, and these intersecting bars to me seems the most likely (though fairly feeble) connection between patterns 1221, and 1231 or 1224.

Fred

[agincourt17]

I notice that the Thistlewood CD-ROM Sowerby catalogue Vol. 3 (section ‘Sowerby Glass in Pictures – Index Page 2; enlarged thumbnail of pattern 1224) says that

“Interestingly, this item has the same pattern number, 1124, as ‘Cross Patch’ shown next.”

and that

“… this vase is the same design as number 1225, except that 1225 is square shaped. It seems likely that there was a small error in Pattern Book IX, and this item should [also?] have been numbered 1225”

Sowerby pattern 1225 is really just an ‘upright’ version of Sowerby pattern 1231.

For reference, I attach photos of examples in pattern 1225 in purple malachite (unmarked), blue malachite (TM but no RD), and blue-green malachite (also TM but no RD), so I assume that pattern 1225 was from an unregistered design until I see an example with a lozenge.

Fred

[Paul S.]

I'd also thought of that idea as a possible connection, but seems to be stretching the imagination too much.

[Bernard C]

...   Examples of pattern 1230 in blue malachite and purple malachite. Both of these examples have the Sowerby peacock head trademark, but neither has a registry date lozenge (and I have always presumed that the design was unregistered, until such time as I see an example marked with a lozenge).   ...

Fred — Exactly.   Precisely the same here, but not for 1230, but for 1231.   Please forgive me for plagiarising your words.

I have seen two examples of pattern 1231, in a colour I can't remember some years ago (when I put a "?" against the 1231 registration in Cottle) and Green Malachite (shown above).   Both of these examples had the Sowerby peacock head trademark, but neither had a registry date lozenge (and I have always presumed that the design was unregistered, until such time as I see an example marked with a lozenge).

You have now shown us three examples with both the T.M. and Regn Lozenge.   So I have erased my pencilled note mentioned at the start of this topic and replaced it with a note that it exists in the two versions.

Thanks.

Finally where is the lonely trademark on the opalescent 1315?    Inside or on the base?

Bernard C. 

[Bernard C]

...   Bernard's pieces can legitimately be called malachite   ...

Paul — You're misquoting me.   I used the term Malachite, not malachite, as that is the term Sowerby used, and is how it was shown on the front cover of Pattern Book IX.

...   Fred is the expert on these Sowerby pieces   ...

No he isn't.   Fred is an authority, but there are quite a few others in Britain and overseas.

Bernard C. 

[Paul S.]

and good morning to you too, Bernard.

Plenty of your usual pendantic criticism, but not a word of appreciation for the Naional Archive material supplied to help with your request for assistance on these Sowerby pieces.

This lack of acknowledgment indicates there is no longer any need for me to supply these details to the Board.

[agincourt17]

Bernard, the ‘lonely trademark on the opalescent 1315’ is on the side of the interior of the ‘bowl’, and I attach a photo in confirmation.

Might I say that I have never purported to be any sort of authority or expert on Sowerby glass (or any other kind of glass for that matter). I am merely an amateur researcher into many aspects of glass design (mainly British Victorian moulded glass designs, especially those from registered designs, and glass trinket sets), and am a seeker after knowledge and truth, not accolades. I think it was Isaac Newton who said “If I have seen further it is by standing on ye sholders of giants”, and I pay due obeisance to those who truly are ‘giants’ in my various fields of interest.

I use the GMB as a resource to further my own research and am incredibly grateful for the input of other participants in those discussions (and try to express my gratitude as appropriate).

During the course of my research I have built up a large photo reference database as a useful primary source of information. Many of the photographs are of pieces that are rare, uncommon, or unusual. Some of photographs are of pieces that seem never to have been to have been in the public domain before. On occasion, I submit information to other members to [hopefully] assist them in their queries or research and hope that participants in the various discussions may gain some benefit.

Fred.

[flying free]

Paul, I can see you point entirely. Whilst I never post on these threads, I do read them and love all the detail and sourced/resourced information that you and Fred supply on each item.  I think it is an absolutely amazing resource. 

I also really value the fact that you take the time to go and research these items at the archives.  No one else would do that.  Please don't stop posting - your help is genuinely hugely appreciated and I am sure that is by many more than just me.

m