Topic: Small Milk Glass Dish - 18th Century?

[MatW]

I have this small (11 cm) milk glass dish and because of the decoration I always assumed it is 18th century. Am I right? And where would it have been made? It is painted in blue enamels and there is some gilding at the blossoms. The foot is an applied ring, and there is a snapped pontil mark in the centre.
Thank you all in advance,
Mat

[oldglassman]

  Hi,
             I suspect you have a saucer without it's tea cup possibly Swiss but more likely Bohemian, the Swiss ones have a particular type of decoration , this 1 to me is more Bohemian in style ,but by no means 100% certain

A Swiss one ,mid 18th c     http://www.cmog.org/artwork/teacup-and-saucer-2

and a probably Bohemian example with decoration more like yours ,  http://www.cmog.org/artwork/teacup-and-saucer-enameled-floral-bouquets

and 1 of mine,Swiss, below.

cheers ,
               Peter

found this to add ,regarding what the glassmakers were trying to achieve with these pieces

http://www.cmog.org/article/east-meets-west,

quote     

  From Venice, the secrets of glassmaking were carried north.21 Although this is well known and much studied in connection with the stylistic and technical properties of cristallo and an international fascination with imitating this type of glass, the production in Switzerland of milk glass resembling porcelain by glassmakers of Venetian origin and training is less established.22 Archeological excavations around the former Südel glasshouse in Flühli, near Lucerne, unearthed fragments of a porcelainlike lattimo of sophisticated craftsmanship and decorated with a feather design that are datable to about 1723 to 1760. They facilitate the attribution of intact objects in this style (^^79.3.277^^ and ^^79.3.340^^).23 This form of decoration may be unique to glasshouses in Flühli, but figural motifs, such as those that are generally affiliated with decorative styles in Bohemia, characterize a second group of Südel glasses.24 Interestingly, this glass is comparatively translucent and so reminiscent both of Chinese porcelain and of its imitations, such as Bohemian milk glass. Thus the Swiss production appears to reflect geographically divergent influences, including Venetian technical skill, a particular batch formula, and figural iconography related to northern traditions.25

[flying free]

This is mine and the cup also has the small gold squares still intact.
I like the all blue on yours and also the molded pattern - that's lovely.
The ones I've found closest to the decoration on mine are sold as Thüringer c1740 but no idea if this is correct.  I've also seen similar to mine listed as Bohemian.
m

[flying free]

this is a link to the Lauscha Glasmuseum
http://www.glasmuseum-lauscha.de/huettenglas.html

and an article about their Beinglas development
http://www.otz.de/web/zgt/kultur/detail/-/specific/Glaskunst-Die-Virtuosen-aus-Lauscha-1305753924

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
            I think between us we have 3 interesting examples which seem to follow the evolution as expressed at Corning , mine which has the decoration attributed to Fluhli and also showing the Venetian influence with the applied foot ring on both cup and saucer,the the OP's saucer which also has the Venetian foot ring but with a decorative style more akin to Bohemia and thought by Corning to be the second group from Sudel, then we have yours "m" which no longer displays the foot ring and has typical Bohemian decoration,I suspect in a very short space of time the style traveled west from Fluhly and was eventually made across central Europe including Bohemia ,Thuringia and probably other places too .

cheers ,
      Peter.

[flying free]

My photo was deceptive Peter, both the cup and the bowl have an applied foot ring completely separate to the bowl.  I'll take a picture of both later and add it.

The closest I have found to the decoration on mine was in the Museum link (which now appears to be broken) I gave to the Thuringian pieces.  I will have another look at Bohemian pieces though now to see if I can find a match somewhere. 

 I did find one bowl last night which also has the molded pattern as Mat's does (mine is plain blown not molded as is my cup) - Glaskilian has it with no identification for area
http://www.glaskilian.de/Bemaltes_Milchglas_Schaelchen.681+B6YmFja1BJRD02ODEmcHJvZHVjdElEPTE5NDQwJnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTY4MSZkZXRhaWw9.0.html

m

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
           yes I have seen that 1 , he says south German I think (Süddeutsch 1. Hälfte 18. )

look forward to your pics of the feet , it does look different in the pic you posted ,

cheers ,
            Peter.

[flying free]

pics 
Actually, whilst the links to the Thuringia museum are down at the moment, the bowl and plate shown in the newspaper article is from the Museum I believe.
 And the enamelling on my cup is nearly identical to that cup.  I do understand about similarities between pieces and with enamelling but the style, colours and depiction of the flowers is practically a match.  Mine has a bird on though.
Link is here again and it is clickable to enlarge
  http://www.otz.de/web/zgt/kultur/detail/-/specific/Glaskunst-Die-Virtuosen-aus-Lauscha-1305753924
m

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
            there we go a pic is worth a thousand words .slightly different treatment of bowl and foot shape on yours,maybe its the decoration then that can help with place of manufacture.

  cheers ,
             Peter.

[flying free]

Peter I just added some text on my post above.
I'm sure it is a match for the bowl and cup in the newspaper article which I believe are from the Thuringia museum.
I know there are similarities etc between styles, but I feel sure that is a match.
I'll do a side on pic as well - my foot ring is a dead match for yours on the cup side on.
m