Topic: Small Milk Glass Dish - 18th Century?

[flying free]

 Also in an article I've read (it might be that one) they comment on the enamels used so many moons ago, and how they are still intact and glossy on the pieces that have survived. Mine retains it's gilded squares on the flowers. Quite remarkable really.
I love enamelling 
m

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
               I am sure you are correct as I am sure that in a short space of time the form would have been made in many glass centres in central Europe.but I  think that Corning has with excavated material at least identified Switzerland and Venetian glassmakers as the possible origin of these cups and saucers.

cheers ,
             Peter.

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
             Like you I find ancient enameling fascinating,to have survived intact for so long just shows what skills the decorators had in those days ,below is a beaker of mine ,the jury is still out on the date of this piece , 17th c or 18th c is the closest I have got so far.

cheers ,
                   Peter

[MatW]

Thank you two for all this great information and the interesting links! The Flühli attribution sounds promising to me, as the Bohemian and Thuringian examples look all more rich in decoration and colour? I also found an example of a Flühli cup and saucer with that "ribbed" form, so similar shapes have been  produced there...
http://shop.sf-antik.ch/index.php/tasse-121.html
Mat 

[oldglassman]

 Hi ,
           They also have this 1 with a bird, for "m"     http://shop.sf-antik.ch/index.php/tasse.html

cheers ,
            Peter.

[Ivo]

I used to own a crocus vase in white milk glass with mock Chinese porcelain decoration and a shape which identified it as English, after ca. 1850. A bit of research came up with Sunderland as the place of origin. Unfortunately it was snapped up by a fanatical bulb collector before I could photograph it. 

[flying free]

Ivo  I have also read of experiments to produce 'bone glass' in England in the early 19th.  I think when I was researching opaline glass developments.  And I did put that information somewhere on the board.  I'll try and find it.

Peter - that's beautiful!! intrigued to know where it will eventually end up both time wise and country/region wise.  Looks quite Indian/Persian in the design of the animal?  but that could mean anything 

With regards the bowl and cup sets, the links to the pieces for sale by that seller are v. interesting :
- There are two with the bird enamelling, neither attributed or identified to a place yet (bearing out Peter's comments that Thuringia may or may not be right and the ongoing research into identifying where made).

- One of them has the similar molding to Mat's (and has most similar enamel decoration to mine).

- The other is plain blown as mine is and has similar decoration to mine but not as close as the molded one.
Both dated as c1780.

- Whereas the Fluhli identified sets are 'spatter' decor as per Peter's, one plum and the other multi coloured, dated 1760, again maybe reflecting your information Peter about developments in producing them spreading across to other countries? Or maybe just indicating that they might have been produced in the same area/region but later?

- One is molded as Mat mentioned. Mat I can see your enamelled decoration in it's limited colour palate compares to those pieces.  But it does have the gilding over the flowers and it is hand enamelled rather than being decorated with spatter chips. I wonder if that will eventually indicate that it was made elsewhere other than Fluhli?
Or it might be the link between the molded spatter and the molded enamelled pieces and indicate they all came from a similar region?

The molded design is interesting because it appears on your set, a spatter set, and also on a set enamelled with similar decoration to mine.

(I've only added this information for future reference in case the links disappear and then we'll have no idea what was being discussed. I'm aware I'm stating the obvious at the moment )
m

[flying free]

Quite a detailed design enamelled version from the British Museum.
They have it as:
c1740-1750
From the workshop of Johann Friedrich Metzsch
Production place of decoration Bayreuth
The enamel picture on the bowl is signed with initials DB and the bowl has a W enamelled on the base over the pontil


http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=72462&partId=1&searchText=enamelled+glass&page=4

[flying free]

http://www.glasmuseum-lauscha.de/huettenglas.html
the Lauscha museum link is working again

I've used google to translate their comment regarding Beinglas - (it translates Bein to leg instead of bone)

'Beginning of the 18th century, Friedrich Böttger found out the composition of the porcelain in Dresden and fired vessels. Coffee and tea from porcelain wares from now on the most sought after luxury objects at the European courts.

The Venetians had Beinglas (ital. Lattimo) since the 16th century in use. To create the milky haze, they put the mixture lead, Zinnodix, bone (calcium fluoride phosphate) or Hirschhorn to allocate funds.

With the intention to imitate porcelain, now melted some huts leg Thuringian glass. Documented the cabins are an ice 1711 Henriettenthal 1720 Lauscha 1735 Ilmenau 1737th

With the widespread use of porcelain in the late 18th century, interest in the Beinglas fell asleep again.'

m

[flying free]

Just for future reference google translated the names of the Glass huts in the text incorrectly -
they should read
Eisfeld 1711, Henriettenthal 1720, Lauscha 1735 und Ilmenau 1737.

m