Topic: Early Victorian (or Georgian?) wine glasses - help with dating, please.

[David E]

Something (else) that's not really in my knowledge base, but I do intend to swot up on glasses.

These are two glasses from a set of five that are owned by a friend, for whom I'm listing them. They certainly have age and are quite small by modern standards, although probably not small enough to be liqueur glasses. You might have guessed I don't have the dimensions... (possibly ~12cm tall?) so I'll post the sizes later.

The stem and foot are both applied, which might be an indicator of the period. The cutting is a little haphazard and not regular, and the height is not consistent. Also some slight imperfections in the glass. My gut feeling is early to mid 19th century, but could it be earlier?

TIA

[Lustrousstone]

Or late Victorian; it's a very common form and size with and without cutting

[David E]

OK, thanks for that. I was assuming that the general wonkiness and irregularities of the glasses would place them much earlier - they were certainly not following a template when making them.

[Paul S.]

welcome David - we have a lot of other beginners here on the GMB too

You don't mention those classic tell-tale signs people are always banging on about  -  pontil scar or polished depression - is there a lead glass ring - have you thought of looking at your famous friend's book?? etc.

Page 151 shows the identical pattern of what presumably is a sherry glass  -  which, slightly surprisingly does have a more recent life span that I once would have thought.
Thornhill were factors or agents possibly, but you'll see the second and fifth pieces shown in the bottom left Pottery Gazette ad. shows these things were still being knocked out c. 1915.            In fact I think this is one of the more common cut designs of early C20 sherry glasses.             Unfortunately, the ad. doesn't include sizes, so you're in good company

Ref. 'The Curious HISTORY OF THE BULB VASE'  -  Patricia Coccoris  -  2012.

[David E]

Paul, I do feel like a newbie sometimes when I'm out of my comfort zone! 

As shown in photo 3, it is a finished base with a blob of glass, no pontil mark. Well found with PC's book - last place I'd have looked - funnily, that's one of the dangers of editing and compiling a book is that you very rarely go back to it, apart from quick reference, but I can still remember most of the chapter names three years later.

Christine - fancy you missing that! 

[Lustrousstone]

I really don't remember things like that. I edit millions of words a year and see thousands of pictures, so I can't afford to remember much

[Paul S.]

hi David.......   just shows you the value of Patricia's book, which an essential volume for anyone with even the slightest interest in glass.

There are very similar shapes to yours, in S. & F., which shows masses of decorative patterns/cuts on sherries that were current from the 1870 - 1880 period as Christine has suggested - machine acid etching was another common embellishment.        Apparently the  shape originates commonly - with this thin plain stem - c. 1850 -60, with coloured versions mostly in green and red - the better quality examples having a collar, but I'm sure a lot have been reproduced in recent times - they don't seem to have the quality or shears/depression mark.
As a general shape for sherry, this type of bowl has had a very long life, and is still produced.          In view of your comments about the foot finish i.e. absence of shears mark or pontil depression, my opinion would be that yours is a C20 product.

Does seem this bowl shape did exist 1760 - 1800 (George III period) but uncommon I think, and mostly the earlier stems differed a lot by having knops/multiple knops, balusters and other forms of cut/moulded decoration - a lot different to yours.

But look at how much you know of mid C20 table ware glass - about which I know just about nothing.

quote from Christine............   "so I can't afford to remember much"  -  don't believe it Chris( )  -  you've a very good memory - it's only when you get to being 49 like me that you forget things.

P.S.    presumably this should be moved to Glass ??

[David E]

In view of your comments about the foot finish i.e. absence of shears mark or pontil depression, my opinion would be that yours is a C20 product.

If you look at the photo it does have a shear mark - I was trying to distinguish between a pontil mark and none at all.

At 49 you're positively youthful! Look at all the things I've forgotten (who are you by the way?)

Christine: I was joking...   

As an English piece of glass, perhaps best left here?

[Paul S.]

oh, I hadn't realized it was made in Britain              sorry, I hadn't blown the picture up so didn't see the shears mark.