Topic: Georgian? eternal bow marriage glass? help please.

[brucebanner]

Found in a Welsh charity shop at the weekend, i think it has some real age and i'm not sure what it's for. Heavily worn on the foot with a polished pontil and a good long ring to the glass. It has circular scratch marks to the interior so it could be spoon wear , maybe a sugar bowl or just in bad condition.

Circular water staining just below the rim makes me think it could be a vase or drinking vessel of sorts.

It's 4 1/4 inches in height, 3 3/4 inches across the rim and 2 1/2 inches across the base.

Reminds me of a marriage glass, any help welcome, regards Chris.

[brucebanner]

I stumbled upon one of these recently on Ebay i'm pretty certain it's a tea caddy mixing bowl which would go with the wear and water staining, there are a few on google similar shape and size.

[Lustrousstone]

Its seems a little small and overdecorated for a tea caddy mixing bowl. It also seems unlikely that it would have a foot for fitting in a box. The water staining is probably because it's been used as a vase, as it's nothing to do with mixing tea; that was the mixing of dry leaves. I think it's a drinking glass

[brucebanner]

They all seem decorated here is one about the same size and shape.

http://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/281802/georgian-mahogany-tea-caddy-with-original-boxes-and-mixing-bowl-circa-1800/

[Paul S.]

if it were twice the height then perhaps a serving rummer, but it's not, although in my opinion I think that's the nearest it comes to a drinking related item  -  and I'd agree with Christine that the water staining is probably the result of being used as a vase.         It's amazing how many unrelated, antique pieces, are commandeered as vases that were never intended as such.                           As far as I know, tea mixing was a dry process.
I believe caddy bowls were sometimes heavily cut and decorated, despite being hidden with the caddy for most of their lives.

My own thoughts on these things are..............   straight parallel sides, with some reasonable height, probably indicates a tea mixing bowl, and they do seem to come with feet, despite the snug fit in the caddy suggesting otherwise.     Quite why some should have extensive wear under the foot doesn't seem immediately obvious.
Pix one and two show what I think are possibly all mixing bowls - cut and pressed.

Picture three shows what I believe are sugar bowls  -  less height, curved sides and with a foot as you'd expect.
Those sugars with a pedestal/stem are very obviously sugars, but care needed to differentiate between them, and comports, which are similar but with a much shallower bowl.

The last picture shows two pieces about which I'm uncertain, although I'm tempted to think mixing bowls.   They are a little shorter than the mixing bowls in pix one and two, but their profile doesn't have the curve of a sugar.
When you think of the variation in these items, it surprised me to find that I have two identical examples of the last one showing the pteridomania engraving which date to around the middle third of the C19.        I'm tempted to think the other piece in the same picture is probably a little older.

But I'd agree that it's not always obvious which is a mixing bowl and which is a sugar.

I'm not sure what sort of implement was used to mix the dry tea  -  presumably metal.       As for sugar, presumably after about 1840 tongs were used to serve lump sugar.         Can anyone add some accurate details here  ...    when did the need for sugar cutters end and lump sugar take over from chopping lumps from a cone?

Unfortunately, mixing bowls appear to have less book coverage than just about anything else,  and I couldn't find anything of use, so the above are my opinions rather than facts.           If anyone knows of a good book, please shout.

[brucebanner]

The last two certainly stand out from the others Paul, similar shape to mine, I have had a good look on the net at tea caddy's and a lot of the older ones have mine in 1800's to 1830's, they seem to be snug fit's, (not that i'm saying my glass is that old) then others have your four cut glass versions in them, being glass objects they must have got broken and been replaced by other similar shaped glass, i'm sceptical of anything still being complete when 200 years old.

Looking at the boxes would there have been a standard set of sizes so replacement glass could be purchased if the glass got broken ?, that's of course if this is a tea mixing bowl and not a sugar.

[Lustrousstone]

What size are yours Paul?

[Paul S.]

my two 'uncertain examples' are 95/90 mm (3.75/3.5/8") - smaller than all the others  -  and oddly enough rim diameters are fairly similar to the height measurement, in both.

Looking on the internet, it appears that many earlier caddies had compartments for the tea only  -  presumably the bowl was kept separate and brought out just for the mixing (which might account for the foot wear).
Then again there are early examples of boxes where the bowl is included, but these may well be in the minority. 

Sugars - even from the late Georgian period look to have a less deep and more curved bowl than the straight sides of these pieces.         I don't see anything like the op's or my smaller pieces in S.& F., for example, and I not going with a drinking glass of some kind. 

I can't imagine the early to mid C19 retail trade having off the shelf matching replacements for broken caddy bowls, although it's likely that bearing in mind their 'common-ness' then something quite close in size was available to fit the caddy without too much difference.

Edited to add...................   going the whole hog  ...   just found a few more in the cabinet - probably late C19 or early C20 I suspect, and the more usual later larger size.

forgot to mention that marriage pieces, usually, have a monogram of the couples initials, and often a date - sometimes there is a heart with knot within the engraving.            Since we believe this is a tea mixing bowl then highly unlikely such an item would show details of a marriage