Topic: Caithness? Wordsworth commemorative Goblet

[Jeanette]

Hi, 

I'm new to this message board so I hope I am in the right place, I apologise if not.  I have a  commemorative glass goblet which has a Caithness Engraved Crystal sticker on it and is etched on the base.  This glass has a bust of Wordsworth engraved/etched (I'm not sure of the correct terminology) on the front with the dates 1770 and 1850 either side.  On the back it just has Wordsworth.  On the base it is marked DD, a large C with a smaller C or G connected at the top and inside the first letter.  Under this is has No. 2 with a line under it.  Under that it has MM (if you are reading it the same way up as the rest) or could it be WW for William Wordsworth but etched on upside down to the rest?  It is in a blue box with CG on the front.  There is no certificate of authentication or any paperwork with it.  I can't seem to find anything relating to Caithness Glass and a commemorative goblet for Wordsworth and wondered if anyone knows anything about it.  If anyone can help me at all I would really appreciate it.  Thanks

[Paul S.]

Hi  -  had a look through Mark Hill's book on Caithness glass, but regret can't seen any specific mention of William Wordsworth - the book lacks an index, unfortunately.

Some very talented engravers  have worked for Caithness Glass over the past few decades - including Denis Mann who joined the company around 1970, and who was apparently responsible for engraving the BBC Mastermind trophy.
He seems to have parted from CG about 1998 to do freelance work, and subsequently produced trophies for Junior Mastermind and Celebrity Mastermind.................   all of which was simply to suggest that it's possible that the MM on your piece just might indicate this to have been one of the Mastermind trophies.              What the other letters/Nos. indicate I've no idea at the moment.
This is pure speculation on my part and the letters MM may well simply be for Wordsworth, but an academic character like WW would possibly be the sort of engraved subject that might be associated with Mastermind trophies.

Etching is a wet process, using acid to cut into the glass where a pre-designed outline has been cut or stencilled through a resist  -  there are no hand tools used in the process.
Engraving is a manual process aided by a machine driven copper wheel and some coarse/find grit which cuts into the glass  -  the dull/matt finish is part of the desired effect, and is not normally polished as in proper cut glass.

CG did also produce sandblasted images on their glass, and according to Mark Hill's book the majority of their glass carrying images was in fact sandblasted.           Obvious how this was produced, but since it might be confused with copper wheel engraving then some explanation of the difference is needed.       In wheel engraving the image shows lines of the cutting and the image is almost always further heightened by additional artistic work, plus there is some depth to the image.                With sand blasting the result is one of complete uniformity of a dull granular frosted finish, and really no depth to the image  -  there should normally be no doubt as to which process has been used.

Let's hope some else is able to provide some useful information.

 

[Jeanette]

Thankyou for explaining the difference between etched and engraved, at least I can use them correctly now.  From your description I think it was sandblasted.  Your idea about MM seems more likely than someone deciding to etch something upside down, which was the only thing I could think of.   

[Paul S.]

glass companies that currently manufacture, can be a great archive source for answering questions like this - at least regarding their own material.
You might try contacting CG - am sure they would be happy to help if possible.

[Jeanette]

Hi Paul, I appreciate the help you've given me so I thought I would let you know what else I've done.  I contacted Dartington Crystal yesterday and spoke to a lady who said she would check the Caithness Glass archives that they hold.  I sent pictures and what information I had.  Anyway, she got back to me today with the following message:

Dear Jeanette

Thank you for your email and photograph. Unfortunately I am unable to find any information on this piece in the limited archive that we have. I am not even able to find the glass shape. I can only assume it was a special commission and it may be possible that a dealer in 20th Century glass may be able to help or an antique dealer. I am sorry we are unable to.

So, I'm working on my next step now. 

 

[Lustrousstone]

I assume it's this one http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/northwich-auction/catalogue-id-srno10126/lot-c7b86ccb-12bc-47e6-b8a5-a4f400bd2f99
There is a similar goblet in the Caithness book sand blasted and engraved with a church from 1974. CG = Caithness Glass. DD will be the engraver (we don't know the names of all the Caithness engravers). I suggest the 2/MM may be the edition number or the date. It would be really helpful if we could see a picture of it all including the marks. Your goblet can't be older than 1968, which was when the engraving department was formed. Apparently there was a huge range of early engraved stuff and some of the clear glass ware was bought in for engraving

[Paul S.]

oh well, good idea while it lasted                 A great shame that out of the names of over 30 odd decorators of glass at CG - with their full names shown in the book - there is no one with a DD.

I suspect that Christine is correct  - hopefully there is still a chance that someone will be able to help.

[Jeanette]

Hi, Thanks for the reply, I've tried to attach 2 photo's, one of the marks on the base and one of the front of the glass.  But it won't let me post them as it says the attachment is too big.  I also tried to post them individually but still couldn't.  So I'm not sure what to do.  Sorry.  Yes, I did just buy it in an auction.  It's nice to learn something about it. 

[KevinH]

Hi Jeanette,

To fix the "size problem" for your pics (many folk have this problem), use http://www.picresize.com/
Just follow the simple instructions on that site, ignoring cropping and other non-resizing opitions. The final stage will show you the pixel and Kb size of the new image - and you can View and Save it from there.

As an example I picked a random (non glass) pic I have very recently edited, which was 750 pixel wide and 374Kb. I resized it to 700 pixel width using the picresize site and it produced a new image of only 86 Kb - well within the Board limit.

[Jeanette]

Hi, 

Thankyou I will try that now.