Topic: ID help: 4 leaf clover pontil mark #1 - bowl

[misha]

OK, two threads relating to a common 4 leaf clover pontil scar today.
Please excuse the copy/paste text here. I'm avoiding two items in the one thread trap.

This, a nice recent find bowl, no makers engraved markings.
H: 140mm
Dia: 240mm

I hazard a guess Australian production.

I think I have seen other bowls of similar colour way and base spot [cobalt blue over white] in the past, but can't recall exactly where.

Likewise, seen discussion regarding that 4 leaf clover technique used by an Australian artist. Perhaps that was an ambit claim made by an ebay seller on a similarly unmarked piece. 

So, same questions apply to vase in other thread,

a) any ideas on who may  have made this piece? and,
b) has the 4 leaf clover pontil scar ever been attributed to a specific artists [or school of artists] work?

[brewster]

There is sometimes confusion between a maker's identifying stamp in the shape of a cross made into the softened material, and the scar from a four-pronged pontil rod which has been attached at separate points. You seem to have examples of the latter kind. In fact, the sharp breaks in these are quite unusual and unlike anything I've seen in Australian studio glass.

Neither do I recognise the styling of either of your items.

Trevor

[misha]

Yes, both are definitely snapped off and not impressed marks, Trevor.
The small green/purple vase has a larger diameter pontil scar than the heavier bowl. 

Aside of an ebay listing some time ago, your blog is the only other example I can recall showing this type of pontil scar. You have suspected Rob Knottenbelt work, more so due to decoration and style though. Perhaps someone working with him at the time, and maybe used to distinguish who produced what piece in those trailed silver chloride examples?
http://australianglass.blogspot.com.au/2015/09/robert-knottenbelts-early-production.html
I do recall discussion on GMB mentioning pontil preparation along these lines though. Can't find it using site search.

Easy enough to do I suppose, impress cross mark into a pointed form pontil gather prior to attachment, but I can't see a lot of advantage in doing this type of pontil attachment other than for large heavy pieces, perhaps providing additional support during forming over larger area.
I'd imagine riskier snap off procedure though, having it crack across all points evenly when shock applied to the rod on one side. Perhaps why the larger vase required grinding off a residual bur at two of the points.

Any idea which school of training used this pontil prep technique, folks?
 
 
 

[brewster]

Although these two items are in separate threads (as usually is best), it is their common feature that is mostly of interest. I'll put a link to the other item here, so the connection does not get lost.

Is there anything in the time and place of finding these items that might suggest a common origin, or is it simply that you've noticed the same feature in items collected at different times and places?

Trevor

[brewster]

A search of the Board will reveal a number of threads in which the American glass artist Don Carlson is mentioned. He apparently claimed to invent a four-point pontil treatment, and some works with that feature have been traced to him or his trainees. Other items against which his name was mentioned have been positively attributed to other makers who are unconnected with Carlson.

I suspect there are many versions of the four-pointed pontil attachment and many who have practised them - both in industry and in the studio. Thus I agree with the suggestion by Mosquito (in the other thread) that your two items are likely by different makers.

To add to the evidence of diverse usage, the four pads shown below are located within in a tidy circle of about 20mm diameter The item itself is 25.5cm high and only moderately heavy, so there is no reason why a special pontil would be required. I guess makers like to experiment.

Trevor

PS. There's an essay about the maker Helmut Hiebl on my blog (see the signature block below).