Topic: Help with Design Lozenge on Pressed Rummer

[mikenott]

I recently bought a flint glass rummer with a clear design lozenge (no other marks). But I am having trouble deciphering it as it doesn't seem to fit either of the protocols for pre and post 1867/68  lozenges. It is the right Class (III). Any help to interpret appreciated!!

Not sure if this one has appeared on here before, but didn't turn up anything with a search.

Michael

[agincourt17]

A glass goblet with the same 'anomolous' lozenge has already been discussed on the GMB at http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,55007.10.html

From my re-reading of the topic, the goblet would seem to be from RD 198277 registered by James Derbyshire & Brother, Hulme, on 16 June 1866.

See also
https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/derbyshire-brothers-designs-by-date/derbyshire-brothers-1866-1869
and
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,53689.msg304690.html#msg304690

Fred.

[mikenott]

Thanks Fred! Guess my search skills are not as good as I think......

Michael.

[Paul S.]

would agree it does look to be a match for 198277  .............   just to satisfy my curiosity Michael, will you please provide another side shot showing the whole of the pressed pattern more fully.             The large 'teardrop' shape is repeated with each consecutive repeat turned through 180 degrees. and it's this one way up and then the other that I'm not really seeing.

Fred  -  have I not previously provided the Kew image for 198277 ? - I do have this, and will arrange to post if I've not done so before. 

Assuming this one is 198277, I notice that the original factory drawing uses the description of 'goblet' rather than rummer.

[agincourt17]

Thank you for your input, Paul.

Although I already have reference photos for the goblet itself (including the 'anomolous' lozenge), I don't seem to have the design representation for RD 198277 and would, therefore, be delighted to see it posted here in due course.

Fred.

[mikenott]

My rummer/goblet does not have an up/down repeated pattern. It is a single upright pattern as per the attached photo

Michael

[Paul S.]

thanks Michael  -  now that I can see the pattern more clearly it doesn't in my opinion represent Derbyshire Rd. 198277 from 16th June 1866 - which as you can see from the attached National Archive picture, does have a alternating repeat pattern.                 The bulbous lower end of the stem also seems to be at odds with the original factory drawing.

Back to the drawing board then.

Having now looked at all of my National Archive pix I have for tumblers/rummers/goblets, regret to say I'm unable to find this pattern.

[mikenott]

I found the Derbyshire goblet in my glass cabinet so here are the two goblets side by side for comparison of size/shape etc.
M.

[Paul S.]

thanks, and think I can see the alternating pattern on the left hand piece, but the background in this picture Michael is too busy and with different colours/shades for an easy id on the screen only, although appreciate that for you there isn't a problem. 

Details on clear glass can be difficult to see at times, and a plain darkish background with some form of light to pick up patterns, will make all the difference.         Perhaps if you lay the glasses down, on the dark sheet, it might improve the contrast.

[mikenott]

Try this.