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Author Topic: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841  (Read 12813 times)

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Offline flying free

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 07:35:33 PM »
Anne see my reply above ,which I have just amended.

My piece appears to be identical on comparison, to the Baccarat shape in the LH catalogues,but very much not identical at all to the PV or MW catalogue shapes.
I'm happy it is still most likely to be Baccarat on that basis. 

But I am happy to keep an open mind.

m

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Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 08:05:18 PM »
Yes, I understood what you meant. I'm only saying that it does not have to be British, because that's where it was picked up... but I'm keeping an open mind too  ;)

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Offline neilh

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 08:42:53 PM »
That Lenay Hautin catalogue really does beg the question as to who produced the molds for these early pieces. I am more familiar with the early plates than goblets. The catalogue shows plate designs virtually identical to Molineaux Webb plates from the 1830s, which I suspect were centrally produced by Birmingham moulders. Were Birmingham moulders also behind the plates in Hautin - even if the glass was physically produced in the low countries? Or was there a centre of moldmaking in Belgium?

As to the UK, until recently I could say that the Manchester houses were producing early plate designs, with no evidence as yet from other glass houses. But recently I came across an early pressed plate design from Rice Harris in Birmingham dating to the 1840s, so we must add Birmingham manufacturers as potential producers for these early pieces.

Feel free to use the pics for comparison. The two PV pictures are both of size 1/3 of a quart (they are two variations on a design). They also produced it in 1/5 quart and 1/12 pint size, which was the smallest.

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 09:05:18 PM »
Neil, I don't know where Launay Hautin orginated but a store was opened in Paris by Baccarat and St Louis and Launay Hautin ran it.  I believe Choisy-le-Roi and Bercy also joined forces with them originally and all their items were sold by LH in Paris.  However in that catalogue, Launay Hautin marked both B and St. L for the Baccarat and Saint-Louis pieces.
Mine was marked B for Baccarat.

As to the mold makers - I don't know anything about pressed or mold made glass.
I've attached a photo I took of my laptop pic to show the shape differences - it's quite rubbish and I'll try and formulate a better pic to upload.  Thank you Neil.
I can't include the Baccarat Launay Hautin catalogue pic but it really is the same as my goblet whereas neither of the PV or MW are.

m

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 09:13:45 PM »
Anne, something occurred to me.  If it says only a number (1) in the catalogue, and there are other pieces in there with numbers such as 1,2,3,4 next to them, then I wonder if the number (1) indicates it was the first time the design was in the catalogue?

So there may be others in different sizes that came along later on perhaps, but that was the first time that m. Larmes appeared as a tulip shaped gobelet in the catalogue if you see what I mean?

m

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 09:31:44 PM »
Neil, I think the design is similar/same/copied maybe but the molds are different between the Baccarat,PV and MW.

I'm not sure how that ties in with who might have made the molds, but they don't look the same to me.  Only the design.

Also,whilst the bechers were produced in Bohemia over a great length of time up to the current day, there are some familiarities  in each time period ... sometimes ... not always, admittedly.  But I would say this design is good for the 1840s in terms of the design of the motifs and the hoops around the base, and the tulip shape.

It's interesting that it might be the first time the design has appeared in the catalogue in 1841 for the tulip goblet. 
I'm sure makers re used and re-produced these designs over a period of time, but some things must have had a 'fashion' if you like, so I don't think I'm out of date for the period.

Possibly that would mean the PV and MW molds were of a similar period?

m

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Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 09:34:15 PM »
Anne, something occurred to me.  If it says only a number (1) in the catalogue, and there are other pieces in there with numbers such as 1,2,3,4 next to them, then I wonder if the number (1) indicates it was the first time the design was in the catalogue?

So there may be others in different sizes that came along later on perhaps, but that was the first time that m. Larmes appeared as a tulip shaped gobelet in the catalogue if you see what I mean?

m
Yes I understand what you're suggesting, but I wonder if that would have been clear to anyone consulting the catalogue as a potential buyer. I would think they'd had a category 'Nouveautés' for that, a presentation of new items.

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 09:36:22 PM »
Anne, I'm going to have another re read of the front pages of the catalogues and see if there is any indication there.
I looked at the 1840 pages and the design is not in there as a goblet but something similar with the teardrop shape is in there (maybe a footed sugar bowl or something iirc)  I'll report back.
m

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 09:48:04 PM »
The start of part 2 of the catalogue  (my tulip goblet falls under part 2 in the 1841 cat) says:

'The articles included in the second part are manufactured only in the numbers and dimensions indicated to each piece and they are exported under Paris.'
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Launay-Hautin-1841.21+B6YmFja1BJRD0yMSZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9ODM4JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTIxJmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

I suspect that mine might have only been made in 1 size indicated by the (1) then ...so not that the (1) indicates it was the first time in the catalogue as Anne had queried.
Truthfully it is an odd shape to have in any other size, that chunky and that shape.  It's very heavy and very thick.  It's lead crystal I presume.

Ah, at the start of the catalogue what  the numbers mean is indicated here
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Launay-Hautin-1841.21+B6YmFja1BJRD0yMSZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9ODE5JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTIxJmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

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Offline Anne Tique

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Re: Rare 1840s Baccarat uranium glass becher -show and tell Launay Hautin 1841
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 10:00:59 PM »
Quote
Ah, at the start of the catalogue what  the numbers mean is indicated here
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Launay-Hautin-1841.21+B6YmFja1BJRD0yMSZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9ODE5JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTIxJmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

It's for water - Eau.  ;D


 

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