Topic: ID Irish Decanter and Rummer

[Kevin B]

I recently purchased an Irish Decanter and Rummer. I bought them separately but they appear to be from the same glasshouse. Does anyone recognise what glasshouse they might be from?  I have attached some pictures. Thanking you in advance. Kind Regards Kevin.

[Paul S.]

Hi  -  May we see pix of the underside of both please.     These pieces may well be from the same source, but in the absence of conclusive evidence you may have to settle for 'possibly'.        Most Irish glass is unmarked, and it's from other features that we have to make decisions.

Looking at the lozenge shaped stopper with its very simple wheel engraving, plus the ornate 'feather garland and scattered stars' - then either the Cork Glass Co. or Edwards of Belfast were makers of similar pieces, but that's not really an assertion of proof, just my suggestions as to possibilities, and I'm sure others here will have their own thoughts.          The shape is possibly a taper - c. 1800 - 1820 - maybe.

As to the rummer - yes, it's very typical of Irish examples from c. 1820  -   barrel shaped bowl, thick strong probably cushion knop - thick and heavy looking foot, and the sort of wheel engraved decoration you'd expect for Irish.

Nice pieces  - how were they sold to you?  presumably without a suggested factory name.             There's a lot of Anglo-Irish glass out there and identifying a maker is very difficult in the absence of proof.            Suggest you get a copy of Phelps Warren's book on Irish Glass  -  the later edition if possible  -  and Andy McConnell's 'The Decanter Book' will also help.               As for rummers, then Timothy Mills book 'Rummers - A Social History Told in Glass' is indispensable.          Most of the information I've used here comes from these sources.

P.S.   It's common practice here to provide dimension of glass items  -  can be a help in some circumstances

[Kevin B]

Hi, thanks for the info. I have the first two books but not the third, so will look into getting that one. I bought them both from unsuspecting innocents on eBay. I paid £40 inc. postage for the decanter and I think I paid £12 for the glass. I was hoping for a closer ID but will stick with what The Decanter says. These will go on the next update of my website www.lovedecanters.co.uk.

[Paul S.]

Just had a brief look at the entry for Irish Decanters, in your link - some nice bottles there - an interesting read.

Taking the liberty to quote a small extract from your text  ...............  "In the world of antiques the ability to identify the provenance of something gives it more value**, consequently Irish decanters hold a value that is beyond there quality."

**I think I would have added to this the phrase 'and interest' -   which must surely be a substantial part of what drives us to investigate the history of these things.

It's a shame that there is a deafening silence, usually, when posts such as these come on the Board  -  so many people seem to want to collect mass produced modern glass, which lacks history and with little evidence of hand made techniques  -   perhaps it's the 'colour aspect.
Clear glass loses out to coloured most of the time, irrespective of inherent qualities.

[Kevin B]

Thanks Paul.  I am currently working on an update and have been for some time. I really need to stop adding more stuff and trying to take better pictures and just release it.  There will be several more Irish decanters, in fact there will be several more of everything.  I started collecting the older stuff 25 years ago and have gradually crept forward in time, but trying to stick with decanters and tableware.
More recently I have been buying Scandinavian stuff, but have been having problems getting the Scandinavians to ID their own glass.  It's a struggle if it doesn't have a number on it, pretty much like here, unless it's Whitefriars that is documented to within an inch of it's life.  The basic problem is, there isn't that much interest in tableware.

[neilh]

Enjoyed looking at your site Kevin.

Difficult to tell for sure from the photo but the last item on page
http://www.lovedecanters.co.uk/LDCylinders.html
looks virtually identical to one in an early Molineaux Webb pattern book.

[Laird]

This is also my field of interest - decanters and drinking glasses.
Well found. I don't know how I missed it.

[Paul S.]

well, that's three of us then                            Tim Mills book on Rummers really is a treat  -  one of the best books of recent years - although no idea if it's still available.

[brucebanner]

Not enough members on here collecting the older glass Paul which in no way reflects the wider world, i can say with confidence i have a lovely collection of old glass now,  with thanks to everyones help, more so yours to start with, one of the best decanters i have seen with original stopper 1780's is within my grasp and i will put a pick on if i can get it in due course.

Have to agree a good web site.