Topic: Glass plate ID help

[burch69]

Hi wondered if anyone had any info on these, brought as a piece in a recent action and struggling to ID it. As always any assistance gratefully received. It measures 19cm across and has no marks underneath. Many thanks Patrick

[flying free]

is it opaline glass?
Does it have a large polished pontil mark?
Can we see a clear good photograph of the pontil mark on the reverse please along with a clear good pic of the whole base and a description?
thanks

m

[burch69]

Hi M
yes the base doesn't have a pontil mark I can see and as it broadens out to form the back of the sides it has a circular pattern as you can see from the pic. But the base it self is totally flat.

[Paul S.]

occurred to me whether it might have been opaline  -  it has a sort of milky type appearance - assume it is totally opaque.    Purely decorative I'd have thought, and I'm thinking it is trying to tell us it's Bohemian/Czech/German from some time ago
Could it be coloured milk glass.

[flying free]

Blue opaline (and opaline in general) photographs incredibly badly for representation Paul.
I have bought pieces no one else has looked at because they look  terrible in pics, and when they arrive they are always much more beautiful in reality.  ~Ditto with much enamelling.  Photographing it shows up what appears to be little defects but in reality, often it presents to the eye as perfectly enamelled.

I think it's definitely translucent (you can see the gilded pattern on it from behind in the photographs and that's without light going through it)
and definitely not opaque (I have blue opaque very old glass and it's completely opaque like Wedgwood pottery to the eye until you hold it up to a very strong light when it turns red).  What's throwing me is I can see lovely little bubbles in the opaline which I always think is good quality older opaline, but then it has that molded base. (as you say, similar to some seen on opaque white glass of a later period)
I think it's Bohemian and would have said c.1860-1870s given the colour, opaline, rim and raised decoration.
But that would be a guess.  Deep blue opaline was used earlier, as was the cut gilded rim but I just think the way it is decorated (not flat to the glass but gilded padded enamels)  and the strange molded foot rim puts it later.  Could be even later than that I suppose.
Open to correction as ever though.

m

[Paul S.]

agree with you on most of that.              Unmarked material possessing generic qualities appear commonly, and can be a pain to nail down  -  as a suggestion how about looking for other known pieces with that rim design/shape??
Since writing said comments, I was looking in C.H. for other Bohemian reasons  -  page 89 shows some b. & w. pix of pages from the 'Art Journal' depicting pieces shown at the Great Exhibition.      Looking at the 'shaped' rims of ewers, decanters and like minded vessels  -  these are very similar the edge design/pattern showing on Patrick's plate.          See what you think.

[burch69]

Thanks for the discussion most interesting but outside my little knowledge. I am mostly interested in Scandinavian glass for 60/70's. I am posting a couple of pic of it with sunlight going through and a pic of the lot I brought it with. I don't think there is anything in the lot to suggest it origins but as I say I'm a little outside normal area here, there are some English bits, Iittala palm leaf bowl some quite nice looking Carnival glass bits, obligatory Maltese horse and a few unknown.
From the information am I best starting around Bohemian glass and going from there?

Patrick

[Della]

Your Palm bowl is Dartington, not Iittala.
I can't help with the plate though, sorry.

[flying free]

the base of the blue opaline plate reminds me of the finish on an American bowl I have.
I think the explanation I was given for my bowl was that it had been 'stuck up' ?
Maybe something similar in method with the plate somehow?

m

[Paul S.]

as with most allegedly antique glass, we're back to the eternal problem of deciding whether something is period or repro.          It's not difficult to look at something that shows distinct and known characteristics and say ah yes, that's Bohemian or ABP or deco or nouveau, but then comes the issue of dating, and this isn't always easy from a screen image alone.          Bohemian isn't my area - sometimes I think nothing is my area -there was a time when we had some of the knowledgeable Continental collectors as members, and I'm sure they would have been able to help with a piece such as this.
Often it needs experience to say a given piece is 'right' - discoloured and slightly worn enamelling - raking the light across a plate to assess any knife marks - wear on high spots and those parts that would make contact - thickness, which can be more substantial on older glass - no one pretends it's easy - and sometimes it's very difficult.             IMHO the best you might do with a piece like this is to suggest a decade or two - maker would be out of the question I'd suggest.

This plate may well be second half C19, it might be mid C20 - visiting museums, antiques fairs, galleries etc. might just help.        Sorry to be rather useless.

Please, what is stuck up?