Topic: Sulphide Paperweight info needed

[KevinH]

Hi Staircase,

Regarding the image of the other weight, you are correct that a copy of the auction site image cannot be posted here for copyright reasons.

I have sent you a personal message with an email address that you can send a copy to. My  message has no subject line - sorry about that; I clicked send too quickly!

[The Glass Staircase]

Hi Kevin,

The picture has been sent to the email you provided me.

Kind Regards,

Adam

[w8happiness]

Hello,
just a speculation,
the gentleman bears some resemblance to Alexander I Karadjordjevic, King of Yugoslavia, assassinated 9.10.1934 in Marseille- there is a big gold coin - 4 Ducats 1931 - showing him in the foreground with his wife... I cannot post a picture of the coin, but for comparison please look up "Alexander I Yugoslavia 4 Ducats 1931"- in the picture of the sulphide, the orders and medals are unclear, but the collar and the profile could fit... the time frame for a commissioned commemorative weight after 1934 would be reasonable, maybe another medal or coin was used as model,
 
hope this helps, cheers e.m.

[The Glass Staircase]

Here's the link to the picture of butterfly weight on auction site lot number 277

http://www.curranddewar.com/auction-list.cfm?srow=281&aid=195&sterm=&imgonly=0&mrows=40

Mod: Edited to add ... Click on the image to get a larger, pop-up view. Not much clearer, though, and it is the only image for the weight.

[KevinH]

The butterfly weight was, in my opinion, made by Salvador Ysart.

When Salvador Ysart butterfly weights were first being recognized by collectors, they were all of the "3D" (floating) variety. But over time, and with certain features becoming easier to recognise, "2D" (flat) examples began to be seen. One of the main features (when taken with other features that separated them from non-Ysart items) was that the upper wings tended to be formed with a noticeably pointed outer tip. This feature separated them from Paul Ysart butterflies in which (for the vast majority) the upper tips were rounded. The weight in the linked auction clearly has the pointed tips feature.

The "square filigree twist" pattern and the rather unusual four orange sections on the black ground are in keeping with the sort of variation seen in the work Salavdor Ysart. Similar types of variation (even if not exactly like the orange patches) can be seen in several weights from the Ysart Brothers (Vasart) period, helping to confirm an attribution.

As has been said earlier, this does not really help with an attribution for the Sulphide weight. But is does show that with some perhaps obscure features we can make a good attribution for the butterfly weight whereas the Sulphide weight remains speculative.

[KevinH]

Thanks, EJM, for adding the info about Alexander I Karadjordjevic, King of Yugoslavia and the suggestion that this might help to identify the sulphide.

Unfortunately, I think the profile lines of the face differ significantly enough to say that it does not represent the Yugoslavian king. In the queried sulphide, the nose line is basically straight, the lips rather prominent and the chin slopes back towards the neck. For the king, the nose line is more "Roman shaped", the lips quite flat and the chin is clearly prominent.

[The Glass Staircase]

Thanks for your detailed response Kevin, I really appreciate you took time to give the picture a look it's only a shame I never won the butterfly weight too

Also thank you E.M. for your reply but after having a good comparison I have to agree with Kevin I think there is only a very vague similarity between the sulphide bust and Alexander I on the coin

[The Glass Staircase]

There is currently a Paul Ysart Rabbie Burns sulphide paperweight on eBay and the colour of glass is remarkably similar to my sulphide, here's the link ...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Paul-Ysart-Sulphide-Paperweight-Robert-Burns/323114000362?hash=item4b3b185fea:g:vn0AAOSwK7pamr01

the last two photo's show the colour best

[SophieB]

Hi all,

I do not think the Ebay sulphide is by PY (the sulphide is not good enough IMHO). I suspect it is a Salvador Ysart though.

KevinH will tell us, I am sure.

SophieB

[KevinH]

I agree with Sophie.

But there are points about the weight that can lead people to think it is by Paul Ysart:
a) Paul Ysart is more widely known, than Salvador Ysart, to have made weights with sulphides
b) The garland of canes is very well formed
c) The base is flat polished

However, I have yet to see an "obvious" Paul Ysart weight with the Robert Burns sulphide, whereas I have seen several Salvador Ysart examples (which may have been made in the 1930s or at the Ysart Brothers (Vasart) works).

Points against this weight being by Paul Ysart are:
a) As Sophie pointed out, the sulphide is not "good enough" for work by Paul
b) The Burns sulphide is known in several weights attributed to Salvador Ysart
c) The cane used for the garland is well known in weights by Salvador / Ysart Brothers (Vasart)
d) In one of the eBay images, the ground is seen to be quite distorted

The flat polished base is a tricky feature for analysis. I do not know whether a flat-bed grinder was ever used at the Ysart Brothers (Vasart) works. But there are several known weights attributed to Salvador Ysart (as opposed to daily Ysart Brothers output) that have a flat polished base. Perhaps the indication here is that such weights were made by Salvador in the 1930s (or a bit earlier?)

An interesting feature is that the garland of canes is set well above the dark ground. That is a not a feature I have seen (at least, not that I recall) in Paul Ysart weights. But I do have a PY sulphide weight in which it could be said that the the canes "float" over the ground. However, the "ground" is not in the form usually known - it is actually a "cup" of dark powdered (but thick-looking) glass rising from the base and up the sides for a short distance. The canes are set a very short distance from the top edge of the dark "cup". Generally, where Paul used a coloured ground in a millefiori weight he set the canes directly on the ground.

Another point of interest is that some people may claim that the complex cane used for the garland of the eBay weight is good enough to have been made by Paul Ysart. Well, yes, that is true! A study of over 400 Ysart canes from weights and other items, all attributed to Salvador Ysart / Ysart Brothers (Vasart), shows that there are lots of very good complex canes which can be said to equal the quality of most canes by Paul Ysart. Checking against Paul Ysart work, it is known that some canes do appear in items by "both sides of the family". However, of the 400+ canes studied, only 14 were found to be matched in work by Paul - and the cane in the eBay weight is not, so far, one of them.

I'll be quiet now.