Topic: Help to identify opaline vase 19th century is it French?

[cdm1christopher]

Hi all
any ideas on whether French or English.  25cm tall with guilding and paint work I must say best art work I've seen.  The top is smaller than base so could it be English.
Date maybe 1860?  Maker maybe Baccarat, moser, Richardson or webb?

Any ideas on decoration gothic  Rocco?

Opaline but frosted and marked 17 to a polished base.

Any info most welcome.

Many thanks Chris

[cdm1christopher]

Couple more pics

[flying free]

is it uranium glass?
I wouldn't have said the number style was English.
Why do you not think Bohemian?

Is this a decider for not being English 'The top is smaller than base so could it be English.' ?

m

[cdm1christopher]

Hi M
sounds like someone out of James Bond ha.
No uranium.
Seriously unfortunately years ago I had many ref books but sold them on stupid or what.

From memory during Victorian period any vases with a rim highly polished over where French or English whereas Bohemian was flat cut and not polished.  Now again from memory the typical design of the vase if English would have a smaller top in relation to the foot whereas French where called top heavy as the top was larger than the foot.
Again depending on the colour of the number on the base could possibly indicate where it may have been manufactured as you said does not seem English mark.  The actual design of decoration should be another indication but I'm not sure what this design would be. 
From memory again if the foot was solid glass or hollow could be indication of where it came from.   I think Bohemian tended to be hollow! 
The decoration seems along the lines of moser harrach very high quality but then that contradicts what I have just said.  So could it be Richardson webb?  I think many decorators used similar patterns but added there own twist.

So that's basically why I'm not sure about who made it and what the design would be called.  But the art work is amazing and since it's all the way round the vase I would assume it was a centre piece to be admired from all angles.

Chris

[flying free]

'From memory during Victorian period any vases with a rim highly polished over where French or English whereas Bohemian was flat cut and not polished'

The vase has been blown and cut from the top as far as I can make out from the pics?  It doesn't appear to have a pontil mark at the bottom and the rim (as far as I can see from the pics) has been cut and bevelled and polished ... then gilded.

If that is the case (difficult to see from the pics), then that is a style of making that would first make me think Bohemian rather than French or English.  But that would just be my first thought.  These things are not set in stone I don't think.

The decoration doesn't look English to me either, neither the mark on the foot.  The decoration and the gilding style makes me think Bohemian mostly from the gilding really.  Although the style design of the enamel does have a French feel to it.
Josephinenhutte might be worth looking into.


Just an opinion/instinct.  Always open to correction  (and often wrong!)

m

[cdm1christopher]

Yeah looking at the vase again your right about the top and the base so def can rule out French/English thanks for that.
So now the hunt is on to whom made it.  Looking at  Josephinenhutte there are similar vases but the same for moser head scratch.  Don't think Harrach as decor seems to be based on flora and fauna.

Still good start.

Cheers

[flying free]

I don't think  the way it is made completely rules out French or English - as I said, these things are not set in stone but I think, if it was me , Bohemian would be my first port of call for searching.

I don't know what you mean by this comment?
'Don't think Harrach as decor seems to be based on flora and fauna.'

Schachtenbach also made similar items.

m

[cdm1christopher]

Their 19th century glass decoration seems to be based on flora and fauna not the style of decor on mine.  Does that make sense?

Chris

[flying free]

oh yes, see what you mean.
However I think ?? they were the biggest producer of Bohemian glass during that period, so it could be possible they produced it and it was then  decorated by an external source/glasshouse/finisher I guess.

So for example, I have a Harrach piece that has been documented at Harrach (they sent me the drawings) and I can see the drawings are the design of my piece (because it is a very unusual shape and design) but without the enamel decoration.  I also know the company it was sent to.  So either it was drawn without decoration but was still enamelled at Harrach, or it was outsourced to be decorated , or it was decorated when it reached the company who ordered it.  If you see what I mean?  But in all three instances, still made at Harrach.

My first port of call for yours would be Josephinenhutte or Schachtenbach if it were Bohemian, simply because there should be pieces online available to search to get some ideas.  I don't know the names of other possible makers but there probably were other possibles as well.

m