Topic: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder

[catshome]

Had a lot of fun learning about this piece.  11.5" (29cm) to top of handle.  Concave Polished pontil.  The surface texture feels rough and sharp.  There is frit in the glass.  Ingrained dirt in the joints between the jug and the applied handle (I will probably clean it out when it is being rehomed).  The glass is not perfectly clear - it has the faintest hint of peach or citrine, barely discernible but it might be a clue.

When I bought it I thought it might be Italian and initial searches bought up a ewer attributed to Salviati, which had the same surface finish and a similar shape and rim

https://lelandlittle.com/l/salviati-aventurine-ewer/auction/339/lot/170/

Trying to find out about the term "granzioli" led me to a brilliant site

https://museovetro.visitmuve.it/en/il-museo/layout-and-collections/in-depth/glass-types-and-glassmaking-techniques-19th-century/

I have also seen the terms "granulari" and " granzioloni" used on some websites, but "granzioli" is the only one on that site.

Further searching lead to an image that took me to Angela's site, where I learned more about "overshot" glass

http://www.theglassmuseum.com/overshot.htm

This took the search to the USA - Boston & Sandwich Glass.  I was very surprised to find that these jugs with the internal ice hole (other terms I came across during the search were "bladder" "chamber" "holder" "compartment"), were made as early as 1870.  Most likely for keeping lemonade or iced tea cool, without diluting the contents.

This one on ebay has a more defined "crackle" than mine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atq-Victorian-1870-Overshot-Crackle-Glass-Twisted-Rope-Handle-Pitcher-Ice-Holder/273903280701

This seller has listed as Czech/Bohemian - they may have seen some of the overshot pieces attributed to Harrach.  I've included it here as it mentions that these pieces were not made after 1887, as it was found that the jugs were difficult to clean and, therefore, a health hazard!  The seller does not give any reference for this information.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/273810367936

This one has a very definite attribution to Boston & Sandwich, but the handle is distinctive and different to mine.

https://www.cooperhewitt.org/2018/02/21/chilled-but-not-diluted/

There are also differences in the position of the ice hole - some jugs have it above the base of the handle and others below.

I am hoping there might be someone more knowledgeable on Boston & Sandwich glass who can confirm whether they did any of these jugs with such a, relatively, plain handle.  Also, whether the polished pontil would be right for B&S, as I have only found examples with rough pontils where a photograph of the base is available. 

Thank you!

[catshome]

More pics - the close up of the glass shows the very fine, wispy, lines in the glass under the overshot layer.  These do not form the usual distinctive "crackle" of crackle glass.  Are they typical for B&S?

[flying free]

See page 140 for the Clichy version of this.  There are more on pages 184-187.Very similar to yours but some differences.  The ice compartment is above the base of the handle, the handle looks sleeker and less rustically applied than yours, and the shape is different because the size of the compartment looks larger.
However there are some similarities with the rim and design of the handle.  That said, I think the handle on yours looks like a Harrach applied handle. 

Clichy refers to them as Articles a glace.  And the ice effect on the glass looks quite similar to yours actually.

I'm not entirely sure that one attributed to Boston and Sandwich is actually B&S either.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KEYMY4_ytuUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=cristallerie+de+clichy&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH07at0ZzkAhULUxUIHYE1D-0Q6AEIKzAA#v=onepage&q=cristallerie%20de%20clichy&f=false

[catshome]

M, what a brilliant book, and so great to be able to read it online - thank you!

I can see that at least two of the images I found appear to be Clichy "cristal granité ou givré", including the one on the left in this lot, which appears to have the same elongated handle as the drawing on page 140.

https://m.skinnerinc.com/m/auctions/2781T/lots/113

The bottom left image on page 186 really does look very similar, however it appears the bases on the Clichy pieces don't have the small stepped base.  Although the handles might vary, I suspect the bases wouldn't.

I agree the handle does have a bit of a bohemian feel, with what look like stylised thorns and the fairly inelegant attachment to the jug.

We can add another term to the list - ice "pocket".

Be interesting to see if any other members have identified any overshot pieces, and can say if they felt sharp, or just textured.  Early in my searches, I read something about using it as a point of differentiation, and I thought I had made a note as I usually do, but it appears not.

[agincourt17]

Here are some photos of a British one in frosted glass.
(Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by Daniel Letts).

Marked with an indistinct diamond registry dark mark, so obviously from a registered design. The format of the mark (with a letter rather than a digit at the '9 o'clock position) indicates that the design was registered no later than 1868).

Fred.

[catshome]

Thank you Fred.....that answers the question of whether similar pieces were made in England.  However, the frosted finish in the images does not appear to be overshot.

None of the Harrach images have lead to anything convincing, although we can add ice "repository" to the list of terms.

[rocco]

Here are my two examples.

The common belief seems to be that these are Boston & Sandwich from the late 1900s. See here for instance: https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/objects/148919

But I wonder if this is true for all of these...
Were these exclusively produced in the US, or in the Bohemian region as well? (I don't see American glass very often here in Vienna).

BTW, I love to use them, they are very sturdy pieces

Michael

[flying free]

There has been another example of a different type of crackle glass vase that Craig owned with icicles on it, being identified as Boston and Sandwich if I recall correctly. It was found to be Harrach I think?

So I wonder if these are correctly identified in the Museum?



m

[flying free]

They were definitely produced by Clichy but I don't think this is the same.
  I've already linked to those on the thread 

If you found two similar versions in Vienna then I wonder if they are Bohemian?  Harrach perhaps?

[rocco]

Thank you, m. I don't think Clichy either...

Bohemian would be my best bet, too.

Michael