No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder  (Read 3618 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12754
    • UK
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2022, 03:38:53 PM »
I've checked the Neuwelt book.  The Eisglas examples are a large water Jug and stemmed water glass however both have an applied foot and have a red gilded snake around them.  The snake forms the handle on the clear Eisglas jug.  Nothing in the book with that kind of handle that I could spot unfortunately.

m

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline rocco

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 2312
  • Gender: Male
    • Vienna, Austria
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2022, 03:45:18 PM »
Thank you very much m for checking!
Maybe they are Boston & Sandwich, and these jugs have been a huge Victorian export hit! :)

Michael

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12754
    • UK
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2022, 03:56:57 PM »
I think we might come across a Bohemian piece with that kind of handle - a basket or something.  I just can't remember where I saw one or some discussion about it yet. 

Also my comments will need checking but I seem to recall there was a fire at Neuwelt and a lot of documentation dating from around mid 1800s and before was lost.  The pattern books etc.  So that may go some way to explaining why all their production is not easily identifiable.
Suffice it to say, they produced tons of glass and exported tons.  So I think it is most likely that your pair would be from there rather than America perhaps :)

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline rocco

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 2312
  • Gender: Male
    • Vienna, Austria
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2022, 04:14:41 PM »
Just recently I saw something similarish with a twisted rope handle described as Loetzt, but for my life cannot find it anymore...

Michael

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12754
    • UK
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2022, 04:25:25 PM »
Maybe under the Loetz Victorian section on the Loetz site?  Just trying to think if that is where I saw a large collection of Loetz pre 1880 ish glass.
Someone had done a lot of research and collecting and showed many pieces from that era from Loetz. 
m

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline cagney

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 328
    • U.S.A.
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2022, 12:23:01 PM »
 In " A Guide To Sandwich Glass" 1st edition 1985. The authors  Raymond E. Barlow and Joan E. Kaiser devote 17 pages to overshot. Two pages are a primer on overshot and the rest photo's of objects with description and comments.
  According to the authors two different processes were used at the factory. The 1st process they would spread the bits of glass [ screened and sized] on the table after marvering, roll the glass on the rod in the bits and blow the article. In this process the bits would separate into "islands" and create lines of separation the likened to roadways on a map. Very much like the Tree of Life pattern in American pressed glass.  Like Michaels [rocco] photo's in this thread. In fact the authors show a pitcher with exactly the same treatment as Michaels and attribute it to Sandwich. Alas, in the comments about this particular piece they also state it was reproduced in a most expert way and exhibited in the display of overshot by Czechoslovakia in the exposition "Man and His World " held in Montreal, Canada in 1975. Evidently Czech overshot manufactured and sold worldwide at that time. Sometimes marked " Czechoslovakia" but may be very difficult to see as the stamp does not 'take" very well because the nature of the glass.
  In the second process they would expand the parison then roll in the bits of glass, reheat and finish the article. Thus you get a more even effect.

  In the "how you tell the difference " section they state that Sandwich is lead glass and probably English overshot as well. I assume any French pieces also. By implication any Czech/Bohemian pieces are probably non lead glass.
 

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline rocco

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 2312
  • Gender: Male
    • Vienna, Austria
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2022, 12:55:15 PM »
Cagney, thank you very much for your detailed reply!

So more or less as we expected: this design was possibly copied in Czechoslovakia. That would at least explain why they turn up here in central Europe (US glass rarely does in my experience).
To tell the difference might be difficult, as the design seems to be exactly the same.

I cannot tell if mine are lead crystal, I would think rather not...

Michael

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12754
    • UK
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2022, 01:01:27 PM »
Loetz patterned handle here but not doubled twisted.

https://www.artglassnouveau.com/phdi/p1.nsf/imgpages/4523_DSCF9067.jpg/$file/DSCF9067.jpg

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12754
    • UK
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2022, 01:03:57 PM »
And seller says this is Harrach Pomona - it has a twisted patterned handle.  I'm not sure at all about that identification  ???  I've no idea at all what it is but the handle might be similar?

https://picclick.co.uk/Rare-Victorian-Harrach-Pomona-Twisted-Rope-Handle-Art-254714614918.html


edited to add this version - the enamelling is interesting is this a New England Pomona version?

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-england-pomona-enamel-art-1781872786

All these Pomonas are very confusing  :-X  Anyway, it's just another version of the twisted handle to compare.




Mount Washington jug Royal Flemish with a twisted rope handle:
https://images.prismic.io/barnebys/75c0956ce9d3dfd076b5d194354f7c22853a695e_29179-1.jpg?w=900&auto=format%2Ccompress&cs=tinysrgb

m

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Ekimp

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1007
    • England
Re: Large Victorian Overshot Glass Jug with ice holder
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2022, 01:40:27 PM »
On page 347 of McConnell’s The Decanter (2nd edition) there is a jug in a tapered cylinder form with ‘hammered’ finish that has a very similar handle to Rocco’s example - two strands of rope-twist, twisted together for the handle and encircling the neck. There is also some similar decoration around the circumference of the pocket/body join. McConnell says 1865-70 Franco-Belgian or British.

There is also a craquelure bulbous example with a plain handle and a tapered cylinder craquelure one with a single rope-twist handle, both of those he has as just Franco-Belgian, both 1870.

He has these jugs with ice pockets in the section for Champagne Decanters.
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day - Winnie-the-Pooh

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand