Topic: Where does this beauty comes from?

[BlueOctopus]

 

Ups ... sorry Sue and Paul, and thanks for setting the link
Monika

[chopin-liszt]

The only identities that are important here are the glass ones. 

[Anne Tique]

Unfortunately, the copying of well known patterns and designs has been a popular pastime in many countries.

I find this really interesting, sort of the chicken and the egg question. Sometimes quality and  colours are a give-away of what's what, but it is fascinating to see what was done, maybe 100 years ago, is still done today and that companies are still copying what's popular or what works.

[Paul S.]

Monika, glad you have an almost certain id for this great piece of glass - Anne Tique is indeed a sharp cookie and very clever girl, and way too full of modesty.
I would have corrected this wrong suggestion that I had any hand in an identification for you, had I been at home this evening  -  however it was poetry day in the U.K., and I was in London at the B.L. listening to some great lines from the likes of Keats, Shelly and Mr. 'mad, bad and dangerous' Byron ….. read by actors, you understand 

Cut glass is a metal that includes some lead oxide in the batch - apparently it produces a softer 'metal' which the cutters find easier to work.         The higher the lead content then generally the longer the 'ring' when you flick the glass - the percentage of lead is often shown printed on the label which comes with the piece when it's bought  -  which of course no good if the glass is half a century or more old as with this vase.
The maximum of lead is usually c. 35%, but is often less.
Does this piece ring at all when flicked?

[BlueOctopus]

Hello Paul, I never rang the bell before.
I‘m really impressed, I expected a deep bong from this heavy vase and got a high, clear bing. Impressed as I said. Does this mean high or low lead?
Monika

[BlueOctopus]

To Paul again,
Sorry I‘m a little lost with the first part about writers and so, please keep in mind that I‘m German, and maybe in that case my English is gone lost somewhere. Or I had one Glas of redwine too much.

I read your post again, and so the highness is not that what I have to listen for, but I think it bings quite long, I think high amount of lead.
Monika

[BlueOctopus]

To Anne about coping.

Yesterday when I was hunting at eBay, I found a  lot of vases which are100% from Zwiesl and they where marked with Joska. 
I wanted to shout at the seller, but they had a Joska Label. Than I visited the first time the Joska shop and what I found was absolutely a shame. Murano, Zwiesel and so on, coped 1:1.
Could‘nt they bring their own design, why is this allowed.
That made me sad

[Paul S.]

the quality or length of the 'ring' or 'bing', is to some extent related to the shape - some drinking glasses and bowls will give a pleasing mid-tone ring, but if the glass has a high lead content then the sound will continue for quite some time, as you have discovered, and this should indicate a quality piece of glass.
If you enter 'lead glass' into the search box on the GMB, you should get a lot of useful information.

Copying is almost the oldest profession where money is concerned  -  which would not be a problem provided we all know which piece is the copy  -  unfortunately, ebay in particular seems to have an abundance of sellers who advertise/promote glass of modern manufacture but copying much older designs/shapes.           The original and older pieces do rightly fetch high prices - the copies trap the unwary.
I've been absent from glass matters for some while, but looking recently at ebay it's frightening to see the amount of mis-described glass, for which high prices are being asked.
But I'll give you 15 Euros for this one, and then you will have made a profit  …………………    I'm only joking.

Apologies for writing about the 'dichtung' and confusing you.

[BlueOctopus]

Paul
I really fall in love with this peace, even for 150 € I wouldn‘t give it away. Even when copy is acid sign on the bottom
i know your are joking, but this peace, even if this was produced yesterday is so impressive, I will take it to my grave.... or 1500€ might be enough for separating it from me..  joking as well

I‘ve go to bed, I have to get up at 5
Monika

[Glas des Historismus]

hello Sue
I looked through everything I got to Val st. Lambert, unfortunately not much only the catalogs from Pamelas side. nothing comes even near. But I hope that somebody which more catalouges of Val st. lambert finds something that fits.
What I forgot to mention, the Josephinenhütte arised 1842 in Bohemia, so it has very good roots. They came to Germany  1945 and began new . They are also known as gräfliche Schaffgottsche Josephinenhütte where Fritz Heckert also worked. 1979 the company was sold to villeroy and Boch and closed 1983

Monika

Monika,

Where do you get your information? Show me proof in the form of a map where Schreiberhau, Warmbrunn and Petersdorf were ever located in Bohemia from 1834 on (and from 1866 on for Heckert). Also, then why do address books show Josephinenhütte and Petersdorfer Glashütte Fritz Heckert in Prussia, then later, the German Empire after Prussia joined and became a Province thereof?

The Josephinenhütte-Heckert connection: Friedrich "Fritz" Wilhelm (the Godson of Prussian King Friedrich Wilhelm III) Heckert, son of Johann Andreas, a master glazier and glassware handler in Berlin, handled glassware from Josephinenhütte in Schreiberhau after 1839. Fritz Heckert never worked at Josephinenhütte. Josephinenhütte Director Franz Pohl Sr. was Heckert's friend, mentor and supplier of glass blanks to Heckert. Fritz Heckert erected his own glass refinery in 1886, shortly before he died 22 February 1887, NOT in 1890, as you claim. Even so, Josephinenhütte records indicate that Fritz Heckert continued to purchase glass blanks from Josephinenhütte until at least 1921. Fritz Heckert's eldest brother, Carl Ferdinand, operated a glass shop in Berlin from 1847. Carl Ferdinand erected a new glass factory in Berlin in 1854, and it was then that Fritz was first mentioned as a participant in the undertaking. It was Carl Ferdinand that purchased the grinding mill in Petersdorf in 1865 (why would a proud Prussian open a facility in Bohemia? That makes little to no sense, considering the severe restrictions on glass export that existed in both Kingdoms at that time.). Fritz purchased the Petersdorfer facility from Carl Ferdinand (+Berlin, 1879) in 1866. It was in 1872 that Fritz purchased the brewery in Petersdorf, because it had a waterwheel, useful in powering various machinery, including engraving machines, grinding, cutting and polishing wheels. The seat of the company was in Berlin until 1884, thereafter Petersdorf became the seat of the company. Incidentally, Josephinenhütte provided glass blanks to a great number of German companies, (myself having expertise in antique German drinking vessels, and this information being of great value to me), including Wieseler & Mahler in Nürnberg and Friedrich van Hauten in Bonn.

Rolf-Dieter