Topic: Numbers scribbed on decanters

[Martyn1]

Hi

I have a few decanters that have been given possible dates of 1830 -1840. I feel that most of them date to 1840 -1850 by a variety of factors of they are original . One of these factors is the presence of scribbed numbers on some of them used to match them up with the correct stopper.   Is it possible that this numbering started earlier than the victorian era and that some of them do date to the 1830s? Many thanks for any help.

[Ekimp]

Hi Martyn1 and welcome. This subject was partly discussed in http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,68935.0.html but unfortunately I don’t think there was anything conclusive. It would be interesting to find out more.

[Martyn1]

Many thanks for your reply.  They are cylinder decanters with three applied neck rings.  I was informed that they may be produced pre 1850 although I've seen some described as late victorian so I'm struggling a bit. They all have a slight grey tone and some frit. One has 32 points in a star cut base which is said to be c1840 - 1860. This one I've found is also said to be dated to 1880. Confusing

[Ekimp]

Yes, not the easiest things to date. McConnell's book on decanters seems to be the one to get although I’ve not invested yet. I’m happy with my decanters based on some experience, the internet/forum and other cheaper books like some of the Miller’s volumes. You could try posting some pictures on the forum and see if someone has any suggestions.

I’ve got a couple of decanters with numbered stoppers but they are definitely Victorian in style. It’s nice to be sure of the stopper being original. I saw on Bargain Hunt once where the expert decided the stopper was original by twisting it three times whilst pushing it home. If he could then hang the decanter from the stopper, then it was original - seemed a bit iffy to me 

[Martyn1]

Thank you.  Hanging a decanter by its stopper sounds a bit dangerous so i won't be trying that. I have tried to attach pics of one of mine but the file is too big so I will have to try later.  Mine are all typical royal type cylinder decanters with three applied neck rings.  Each has different style cutting.  Two have plain bases with ground out pontil.  Two have star cut bases, the others arrow cut bases.  One I'm fairly certain is c1830 with 16 points to the base star. .

[Paul S.]

Thought I'd once read that you'd be lucky to find a matching No. on something much earlier than 1890 - 1900 - but perhaps thinking has changed.

quote            ………   "I’ve got a couple of decanters with numbered stoppers but they are definitely Victorian in style."           The lady reigned for a long time  -  what sort of assumed date of manufacture are we talking here?

So many stoppers are replacements, or at least they are on bottles in the places I buy from - it's a surprise when one with a perfect fit is found - and sometimes the matching No. helps to confirm this.

Difficulties with dating bottles are the usual ones - caused by the many copies out there.

[Martyn1]

Yes.  My decanters mainly came from boot sales and charity shops.  Non have the correct stopper and most didn't have them when I bought them.  An expert has seen some of them and dated them to 1830s by style but I think that most are 1840s and later.  This is where I'm confused as some have numbered necks or lips.

[Paul S.]

dating by style alone is risky  -  so many patterns have been copied, particularly in the 1920 - 1930 period, and I'd suggest you won't find a bottle with matching Nos. earlier than Victorian.
Try re-sizing your images with IrfanView programme  -  it's free to download  -  or send your pix to one of the Mods. and they will be able to help I'm sure.

[Martyn1]

Many thanks.  I am thinking that most of mine are victorian c 1840 - 1850? I would try and send pics to moderators  as my phone doesn't work well with pictures.  Is there a particular moderator or email address that someone wouldn't mind me sending pics to?

[Martyn1]

This site suggests a stopper of c1820 which shows a scribbed number.

http://www.lovedecanters.co.uk/LDCopies.html