Topic: Numbers scribbed on decanters

[Paul S.]

from those bottle I have seen - 1800 to present - experience appears to show that it's unusual to have the matching No. on the mating shaft of the stopper - in fact I don't now recall that I've ever seen such an example.            McConnell's book is a must if you collect these things  -  reading his notes under the heading of 'Stoppering' is interesting, and useful, in conjunction with the above link,

[Martyn1]

Many thanks Paul.  Some of my decanters have the numbers  on the lip or neck.  I don't have matching stoppers.  Some of the stoppers that I have on other decanters are numbered on the tip and appear to be victorian to me.  Unfortunately I don't have any books on decanters as I  only buy  decanters when they are cheap and I mainly collect ceramics and Militaria.   The ones i have are chance finds and I would just like to know the age of them.

[Ekimp]

"I’ve got a couple of decanters with numbered stoppers but they are definitely Victorian in style."           The lady reigned for a long time  -  what sort of assumed date of manufacture are we talking here?

Yes, in there somewhere I was thinking later but mine are shaft and globe decanters (and almost perfect) so I thought wouldn’t help with deciding if numbered stoppers existed before the Victorian period.

[Martyn1]

A dealer has informed me that he has a decanter deemed to date to c 1830 which has a numbered lip.  It was on the antiques roadshow a while back and he was told by the expert that they would often be numbered by the owner to ensure that servants would match the stoppers correctly.  So tat may be a possibility.

[Paul S.]

have to say I've not previously been aware of seeing the comment that matching Nos. were added by owners as an aid memoir for the servants  - must speak to the maid again on that point;-)
I could be very wrong, but was under the impression that such numbering was for the benefit of the factory workers to help with 'matching' a given bottle to a suitable well fitting stopper, before leaving the factory.

It could be of real interest, and a way of helping to settle this issue of dating for matching Nos., if people here were to post pix of their bottles with matching Nos., provided of course that assumed dates of manufacture of said bottles is incontrovertible.

The copyists were busy, apparently, in the last quarter of the C19, and then again between the wars in the C20.        Such bottle are now of considerable age, and will show sufficient wear to make accurate dating difficult.

[Martyn1]

 Yes it would be really good if people would post their bottles with numbers on. I myself can't see why this can't have been done in the regency period as matching stoppers was just as important then. If you were copying to deceive then why add the numbers to an otherwise authentic looking piece, likewise, surely you could tell by the quality of the glass.   

[neilh]

Manufacturers would sometimes put a private mark on the decanter somewhere to indicate it was one of theirs. There is a news clipping I read some time ago of Aldersons of Warrington c1840 using such a mark as proof that their goods had been stolen from the works and sold on by the thief to a nearby retailer.

[Martyn1]

That's interesting and makes a lot of sense.  One of the bottles i have has the look and feel of old glass with a soft grey tone.  It is a typical type of royal cylinder decanter.  The stopper may be the original one but has no number.  The decanter has a number 5 scribbed on the lip. It was described as victorian and the seller described the date as c 1830 - 1840,  pre 1850. The number could be anything.  It would be good to know if any definite Georgian, Regency or early Victorian decanter has a similar number.

[Ekimp]

provided of course that assumed dates of manufacture of said bottles is incontrovertible.

Does such a piece of glass exist? 

experience appears to show that it's unusual to have the matching No. on the mating shaft of the stopper

Just had a look and both my shaft and globe decanters have stoppers numbered like this, rather than on the end.

[Martyn1]

 Yes with all the makers there must have been loads of variations and a lack of consistency. Some makers may have been numbering stoppers quite early.  It would be nice to know if any contemporary documentation mentioning these numbers exists.