No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"  (Read 16752 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #150 on: December 02, 2021, 12:38:13 AM »
With reference my comments yesterday on whether a coat of arms or a cypher (see quote below), see this finger bowl made in 1824 and engraved with a coat of arms:

https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O2146/finger-bowl-wear-flint-glass/

There is a vast difference between the detail on that 'coat of arms' as opposed to what we see on the uranium glass bowls which is to my mind not a coat of arms but monogram/cyper i.e. an engraved VR with a crown above.





And going back to 'The mirror of literature, amusement, and instruction. ... vol.30 (Jul.-Dec.1837)'
Page 326
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101075454072&view=1up&seq=361&q1=glass

'The decanters, claret jugs, champagne, hock, and other glasses, are all richly cut, and ornamented with a vine border, varied with the rose, thistle, and shamrock, and the Royal Arms.'

There is no mention whatsoever of the Guildhall arms/flag seen engraved on the uranium glass bowls in the V&A and Corning. 
So ... the clear glass plates could have been for that banquet because they are clear glass which was obviously being produced at that time, although I think the design around the rim is a bit odd as no thistle, shamrock etc. and there is no Royal Arms on them (Unless The Mirror report mistakes the phrase 'Royal Arms' as a crown with a VR engraved on it, instead of reporting it as a 'VR insignia or cypher' which is what I think it actually is)






Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #151 on: December 02, 2021, 10:44:17 AM »
I have found a possible match to the quite distinctive style of foot on this bowl. 

Source: Charles Hajdamach, British Glass 1800-1914 (Published 1991)  page 48 Plate 34, Right hand Jug.  It appears to have the same foot design as the bowl


The caption of said piece says 'Jug with pillar cutting which matches a design in the Webb Richardson books, c.1830s . Height 10 1/8 in. (25.7cm).

He shows on page 46 some jugs and some celeries from Webb Richardson - see 'Plate 30. Plate 31.' and notes they're c.1830s.
I couldn't see a match for the entire jug design.  I could see what could  be a match for the curved pillar cutting on a piece on plate 31. bottom row middle item noted as 'Jug' on pattern, but not for the rest of the elements of cutting.

None of the pieces on the patterns shown on pages 45-52 seem to have this foot design though.





Unfortunately it's catalogued in the Glass Collections Dudley as 'Probably W.H., B., and J., Richardson.'  Graces says the company officially became this name in 1842.

https://www.blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH100

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #152 on: December 02, 2021, 09:26:07 PM »
I've given in and bought the Davenport book.  If it's not  a categoric identification from that, I'll be quite cross  >:(

m

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #153 on: December 04, 2021, 03:49:40 AM »
The Gentleman's magazine - Obituary for John Davenport page 545 from 1849

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Gentleman_s_Magazine/YPb5jbale7IC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=john+brindley+glass&pg=PA545&printsec=frontcover

lots of mention for the service made for King William coronation - zero mention of anything for Queen Victoria Banquet at Guildhall.

Does mention that they started production of flint-glass, or chrystal, in 1801 and that it continued to be made still at the time of the obituary.
The glass production was started by a John Brindley and taken over by Davenport.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #154 on: December 05, 2021, 11:17:44 AM »
Topaz glass 1849 made by Messrs. Bacchus and Sons.  Specifically noted and highlighted in script as Topaz in the description in the catalogue -
Quote:
'179.  Water Jug and GOBLET in Topaz , richly cut, manufactured and exhibited by Messrs. Bacchus and Sons .'

in the:
' Catalogue of Specimens of Recent British Manufactures Received in Competition for the Society's Special Prizes
Session 1849 - 1850 '

See page 14  Item no 179

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Catalogue_of_Specimens_of_Recent_British/nkbp-Bq5qDQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=english+opal+glass&printsec=frontcover


Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #155 on: December 05, 2021, 12:44:49 PM »
Note:  Is it possible that glass denoted as 'topaz' or indeed 'topaz-coloured glass' doesn't necessarily have to be made with uranium in the batch.  Could the yellowish colour or amber colour of topaz can be achieved without using uranium?




Topaz glass 1849 made by Messrs. Bacchus and Sons.  Specifically noted and highlighted in script as Topaz in the description in the catalogue -
Quote:
'179.  Water Jug and GOBLET in Topaz , richly cut, manufactured and exhibited by Messrs. Bacchus and Sons .'

in the:
' Catalogue of Specimens of Recent British Manufactures Received in Competition for the Society's Special Prizes
Session 1849 - 1850 '

See page 14  Item no 179

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Catalogue_of_Specimens_of_Recent_British/nkbp-Bq5qDQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=english+opal+glass&printsec=frontcover



See also - Art Journal report on the 1849 exhibition in Birmingham
Page 294 where Bacchus and Rice Harris are noted as exhibiting Uranium glass.

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_art_journal_London/65BCAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=uranium+oxide+cornwall+mine+1817&pg=PA137&printsec=frontcover




Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #156 on: December 05, 2021, 08:09:05 PM »
An interesting bit of information here:

page 65
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/American_Glass/JW9yDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=uranium+glass+1830&pg=PA127&printsec=frontcover
American Glass
The Collections at Yale
John Stuart Gordon
2018.




'In 1839 Thomas Leighton, the chief gaffer at the New England Glass Company, wrote to a colleague in Scotland  enquiring about the "Canary Metal" he had seen there. " You likewise informed me that to make your Canary Metal you used nothing but the Oxid (sic) of Uranium in your Flint Batch. ..."
Source for that is noted in there as '2. Thomas Leighton, in Jane Shadel Spillman, "The Leighton-Ford Correspondence ," Acorn 3 (1992)'

I think the Ford refers to John Ford of the Holyrood Flint Glass Works, Edinburgh, however it is just mentioned that he wrote to 'a colleague' so it might not have been Ford.



Attempting to work out who Leighton wrote to as a colleague in Scotland in 1839 regarding how much uranium to add to the batch.

This list of glassmakers paying taxes in 1833 lists makers in Scotland in 1833:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GU0SAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=rice,+harris,+%26+co+birmingham&source=bl&ots=bXEQA2YWS-&sig=ACfU3U11WCdmxNfLfkuMoEpZq89suHx-LA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiS88KzqMv0AhVVgFwKHWr6CwM4ChDoAXoECAwQAw#v=onepage&q=rice%2C%20harris%2C%20%26%20co%20birmingham&f=false

Page 76 - Glassworks listed as : 
Ayr - Kerr Dunlop and Co

Edinburgh - Edinburgh and Leith Glass Company

Glasgow - Allen Fullarton
               William Geddes
               John Geddes
               Geddes, Kidston and Co

Haddington - William Baillie and Co

Stirling - John Sandeman


Ahah - in this link there is a quote from the book:
https://www.nbmog.org/cains
'In 1828 New England Glass Company superintendent Thomas Leighton wrote to John Ford at the Midlothian Glass Works, Edinburgh, about "a few of our Moulded Artikles [made] the same as you Make the Square Feet.'

Interestingly there is no Midlothian Glass Works listed in the 1833 taxes list above.


Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #157 on: December 05, 2021, 08:45:01 PM »
snippet found in an Antiques publication:  No idea if this is correctly 'snippeted' or if the info is true, but if true it would be by 1837. 
Leighton wrote to him in 1839 about the Canary metal he'd seen there.

Obviously also no idea also if the 'canary metal' Leighton had seen there was actually made by John Ford of course.  It might have been a piece John Ford had from elsewhere.
But anyway, he wasn't appointed manufacturer to the Queen until after 1837 her coronation and the link doesn't imply the canary metal was around in 1837 at all.

In 1835 this firm was dissolved and John Ford carried on in the South Back Canongate under the name Holyrood Flint Glass Works . Two years later that glasshouse was appointed ' Flint Glass Manufacturer in Ordinary to the Queen.


Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Ekimp

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 896
    • England
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #158 on: December 06, 2021, 10:44:33 AM »
Hopefully your new book will tie these down! I was just having a look to see if the engraving on the finger bowl and plate looked to matched in style but itís hard to see the detail, they donít look very different.

I did notice that the plate especially (and possibly the bowl too) looks to be decorated with the Intaglio technique that was supposedly invented by Northwood I in the 1890s. I donít suppose thereís any realistic chance the plates are actually that late?

From Hajdamach ď...a standard intaglio cut will reveal a sharp edge on one side going into the surface of the glass at ninety degrees while the other edge slopes gradually upwards to the surfaceĒ. Northwood II seems pretty adamant this was invented by his father in early 1890s but maybe thatís in doubt, see also Paulís decanter http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70992.10.html But surely Northwood would have been aware of items like these?

Plate: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O2181/ice-plate-davenport-co/
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day - Winnie-the-Pooh

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline flying free

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 12534
    • UK
Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"
« Reply #159 on: December 06, 2021, 11:31:45 AM »
This engraved decanter in the V&A is interesting.
Made 1800-1820 but engraved decoration added by Franz Tieze c.1910 - signed by him.  Nice shamrocks.

https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O249879/decanter-and-stopper-unknown/

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand