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Author Topic: Info on James Powell Topaz glass - "The Queen Victoria Topaz bowl"  (Read 20681 times)

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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2020, 09:10:59 PM »
For comparison (at least to the clear glass iceplate), I'm adding a link to a Thomas Hawkes piece which, according to Black Country Museums, was produced c.1837.
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1380/


and just out of interest, a bowl,which according to the Black Country Museum website was produced c.1834-1837.

http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH3330/

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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2020, 02:33:24 AM »
So just following this up as things occur to me.

1) On page 57 of Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 it shows colour plate 4  including this bowl seen in the V&A link I gave earlier. 
It's photographed against a white background so a little easier to see the 'real' colour and it appears as a yellow colour glass (in my opinion the yellow is quite clear but leaning towards slightly honey coloured yellow rather than citron if you can picture it).  Described  in the caption as '... the bowl in yellow glass, ...'


On page 54 talking about this colour plate and bowl, and as part of a suggestion that England, France and Bohemia were all experimenting with colour technology at around the same time period rather than England lagging behind, it says:

'Stunning proof which underlines this theory is found in a set of finger bowls in yellow glass comparable to the 'Annagrun' or yellow-green colour, achieved with uranium, which had been discovered by Josef Riedel in Bohemia in the 1830s. The finger bowls and matching plates in clear glass, partly frosted and engraved, were used at a banquet in the Guildhall for Queen Victoria in 1837 to celebrate her first official visit to the City of London.'

But there is definitely no mention of a maker in the description in CH British Glass pg54.  So I'm not sure how this is 'proof' that the English were experimenting with coloured glass at the same time a Bohemia and France really.



2) The mismatch between the uranium yellow bowls and the clear glass plates:
The clear glass plates are engraved with roses and leaves (from the picture on the V&A) and the yellow bowl is described on page 57 as being engraved with roses, thistles and shamrock.   I've downloaded the photograph of the yellow bowl from the V&A site and it's incredibly hard to see the engraving because of the way it's been photographed, so I cannot see any roses on the bowl (but I can see leaves which do look similar to the leaves on the clear plate).  So I can only clearly see thistles and shamrock on the bowl although the roses might be on the sides unseen in the photo.  It's hard to see whether both have been done by the same engraver but the VR insignia looks slightly different to my eye on the two pieces and on the plate it has a small bower of leaves and forget me nots underneath whereas that bower is not on the bowl under the insignia.



3) Neither the V&A or CH describe this bowl as Topaz but I think, whilst the link the Museum of London print site of the bowl has disappeared suddenly, it was described there a Topaz glass,because a link to that description and the bowl still comes up on another print site called Memory Prints here (and gives credit to the Museum of London):
http://www.memoryprints.com/image/142383/james-powell-and-sons-whitefriars-ltd-finger-bowl-in-topaz-glass-1837

CH describes it as 'yellow glass comparable to the 'Annagrun' or yellow-green colour, achieved with uranium, which had been discovered by Josef Riedel in Bohemia in the 1830s'.
The V&A describe it as 'Uranium-yellow glass, cut and engraved' and say it was made by Davenport's
https://www.vam.ac.uk/blog/museum-life/seeing-more-glow-in-the-dark-glass

The use of the term Topaz glass to describe this bowl is interesting because Harrach made 'gold topaz' before 1835.  In Farbenglas II (Neuwirth) page 278, it says 'Harrach certainly made the "gold topaz composition" already before the Vienna Exhibition of 1835, when the table candlesticks in this colour were also shown'.
and further on in the paragraph
' A sugar water centerpiece in "gold topaz composition" was part of a presentation by Harrach in Vienna in 1839 (Vienna, 1839; Report, 1840 p. 38).

I'm not suggesting that Harrach's 'gold topaz composition' was uranium glass.  Just that it's interesting that the name 'topaz' was linked to Harrach before 1835 and was, I think, used to describe that VR bowl by the Museum of London.  Why would they have used the term 'Topaz' as a descriptor?

The use of uranium in colouring glass is also according to that same book, known before 1835 in Bohemia (lots of examples given) and the book says the term Anna-green was used by Blaschka before 1835 - so the book questions whether it can be linked to Anna Riedel since it was already in use before 1835 elsewhere - source,  Farbenglas II Walthreud Neuwirth pp.277 under section 'On the history of uranium glass'.

I'm not aware of any other uranium yellow English glass from c.1837.  Are there other items out there? It would be curious if this was the only surviving piece.

















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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2020, 03:29:52 AM »

In Apsley Pellatt's book the Curiosities of Glass Making 1849 there is really very scant information on Uranium glass.   He mentions it on page 73 and talks about the new fashion for scent bottles and the beautiful semi-opalescent, yellowish green colour for these; produced chiefly by the expensive oxide of uranium, mixed with a slight portion of copper and appearing yellow or light green.

Then he goes on to say the chameleon-like effect of it is 'also produced by uranium alone, used as the colouring oxide for gold topaz:  it has been much in demand for hock glasses and decanters, and many ornamental articles of glass;...'  (hock- my bold, German white wine)



Just going back to Apsley Pellatt's mention of chameleon glass in the book dated 1849:
In Farbenglass II, Neuwirth, pp276, there is a chapter titled 'Chameleon Glass where it says:
-  Egermann exhibited a number of "chameleon beakers" in 1835.  And
- 'The colour glass specialists at Adolfhutte succeeded with this creation prior to 1837' (a jug is shown and it is inventoried in the Technical Museum Wien along with date and the inventory 'speaks of "chameleon glass"'. And
- 'J.B. Eisner lists a group of "chameleon" glasses which contain uranium and chromium oxides (Blau,1940, p.17)'

So 'chameleon glass' as a descriptor seems to have been used before 1837 in Bohemia and mentioned by Pellatt in his book of 1849.  I wonder was he referring to Bohemian glass?

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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2020, 11:38:44 AM »
In the glasshouse recipe book covering 1831to 1838 it records some trials of various colouring oxides.
One of these trials was with oxide of uranium which produced a spectacular yellow which Powells called topaz.
Powells made some silver mounted candlesticks with prismatic drops given by lord Howe to queen Adelaide in topaz in 1836.
In the banquet given by the corporation of London for queen Victoria in 1837 there were 12 finger bowls and the bowls of twenty four hock glasses.
Dont know why Charles Hajdamach would not have attributed the images, he is a very knowledgeable expert.
Tim

I'm also curious about this mention of hock glasses in that book for the City of the London banquet.  What shape would they have been in 1837 to have been described as 'hock' glasses ? Would they have been this shape?:
https://scottishantiques.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=8457

Was Powell's producing that shape table wear in 1837?  Whilst now there is no mention of Powell's in connection with the yellow finger bowl (V&A now has Davenports as the maker) they seem to be mentioned in the book in relation to hock glasses (info from Essi).  A 'hock' shape looks like roemers to me.  Would they have been a traditional part of English glass production in 1837?



As I posted earlier in this thread, Apsley Pellatt mentions in his book of 1849:

'Then he goes on to say the chameleon-like effect of it is 'also produced by uranium alone, used as the colouring oxide for gold topaz:  it has been much in demand for hock glasses and decanters, and many ornamental articles of glass;...'  (hock- my bold, German white wine)'

1849 is quite a bit later than 1837 (especially in glass life and fashion) however she married Albert in 1840 so I can imagine if Pellatt talking about them being in fashion after she married Albert.  But being popular in 1837 enough to have been produced by an English glassmaker?



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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2021, 06:11:02 PM »
Annagelb uranglas becher c.1835-1850 is a good match for the colour.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23956/lot/80/?category=list

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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2021, 09:19:26 PM »
1)  previous links are broken on the Thomas Hawkes plate (added just because it seems to date from a similar period to the uranium glass VR bowl) - new link here

https://www.blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH1380

and here

https://www.blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH3330

2) To find the uranium glass VR bowl in the V&A collection it's necessary to search Longport in the collection rather than Davenport.

3) Davenport seems to have been John and James Davenport.  Reports from around that time don't give any details except to mention it as an extensive glass works in Burslem amongst the many potteries.

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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2021, 01:31:25 AM »
The Mechanics Magazine 1845

Memoir on the manufacture of glass in Bohemia by M. L. P. Debette  (continued part of article - the actual article is in 'parts' with the start being on page281 (starting bottom of right hand column)
This is a translated piece which was written  by M. L. P. Debette and originally published in Annales des Mines in 1843)

See page 399 (bottom of right hand column - 5. Greenish yellow ) and 400 where a description of the various colours of Bohemian uranium glass are written as of the year 1843:

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Mechanics_Magazine/L45fAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=bohemian+glass+1830&pg=PA284&printsec=frontcover



This was written in 1843 about Bohemian uranium glass specifically the 'greenish yellow' uranium glass.


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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2021, 12:40:07 PM »
Caveat to this post - I could be very wrong on all this and Davenport could have been making lots of uranium glass in 1837 but ... I think there is a question over this.




Harold Newman in the Illustrated Guide to Glass, 1977 Thames and Hudson has this to say about Uranium Glass pp 323:

'uranium glass. A type of glass produced by the use of URANIUM in the BATCH.  It is yellowish-green (ANNAGRUN) or greenish-yellow (Anna-gelb.  It was developed by JOSEF RIEDEL (my note- Waltraud Neuwirth has information that the term Annagrun was in use before 1835 and appears to have related to Uranium glass in Farbenglas I pp277), and was later produced by GEORGES BONTEMPS  at CHOISY-LE-ROI.  See VASELINE GLASS.

(There is no further different information under the heading VASELINE GLASS.)

Newman makes no mention of Uranium glass being produced in the U.K.







Looking at the bowl again, the style and cutting seem quite ok for the period 1830s.  To me it has quite a Regency cut about it but open to correction, apart from the flared out rim. The foot design and the ridged facet cutting on the body seem ok for the period and style.

The issue for me is the uranium glass and it being made in England in 1837 or earlier.  By any maker. There is very little information on Davenport (Longport) who the V&A say it was made by.

Or rather is it really probable uranium glass like this was being made in the U.K. in 1837 or earlier?


My questions are is it possible:

-  this was made in Bohemia and sent here for cutting?  or

-  made in Bohemia, cut in Bohemia and then sent here for engraving?  or

-  made at a different time period, made in Bohemia and engraved in U.K. and was never actually used for the 1837 Queen Vic banquet but for another
    occasion?  or

-  made at a different time period, made, cut and engraved in U.K. and was never actually used for the 1837 Queen Vic banquet but for another occasion?








(Just as a note to myself to double check the Annales des Mines 1843 report, from the top of my head, that French report mentioned both Silberberg and Winterberg.  Silberberg might refer to Buquoy glass and Winterberg might refer to Adolfshutte bei Winterberg (Meyr's glass).  Question to self - did I  read that in connection with Uranium glass or opaline glass section? need to check)

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Re: Info on James Powell Topaz glass
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2021, 02:14:24 PM »

(Just as a note to myself to double check the Annales des Mines 1843 report, from the top of my head, that French report mentioned both Silberberg and Winterberg.  Silberberg might refer to Buquoy glass and Winterberg might refer to Adolfshutte bei Winterberg (Meyr's glass).  Question to self - did I  read that in connection with Uranium glass or opaline glass section? need to check)


Checked - Silberberg and Winterberg were mentioned in connection with OPALINE uranium glass.

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