Topic: Angus & Greener on Trimdon Street, Sunderland

[neilh]

Yes, by chance I have a comport here which is either 214357 or 8, the lozenge is too indistinct to work out which one it is. Mine has a density of 2.57g/cc - my method is a bit rough so that's accurate to 2% with downside more likely based on other values I have. You could be right on 33 - they used studs on a few of their late 1860s registrations, by that token 52 and 58 are probably from the same period, someone who knows more about this firm than me might give a more detailed id.

I remain intrigued by fragment 42 with its strange inscription. I am wondering with the green colour if it will turn out to be made of bottle glass. Some years ago a collector showed me a large and ugly comport in bottle glass which he said was early Edward Moore (1860s). It was perhaps the most basic piece of pressed glass I have ever seen. I should have bought it as I've never seen anything like it before or since, but I wonder if you will uncover any evidence of bottle glass being used in early pressed production in the region.

Here are all my density values for Greener - bear in mind any piece could have been made decades after the registration, and even by a different firm if the moulds were transferred:

1858 - registered bowl - 2.64g/cc  <-- indicates some lead
1866 - registered decanter - 2.56g/cc
1867 - comport - 2.57g/cc
1869 - registered Peabody plate - 2.51g/cc
1874 - registered bowl - 2.5g/cc
1893 - registered wheelbarrow - 2.47g/cc
1898 - registered vase - 2.48g/cc

Bearing in mind the slight roughness in method, it basically means some lead prior to mid 1860s, then little or none.

[madweasel]

Interesting stats. As to the compositions, as I said before, we are awaiting the results. I put in a selection of colours and forms so we will get a good range - and some from this early layer [205].

Tomorrow I will post fragments that are more recognisable as A&G or just Greener that came from the demolition phase of the glass works - in the mid-1870s, according to the documentary history. I will explain this tomorrow.

This is significant because you note that moulds would have a long life, but do you know about the process of patenting the designs etc in the first place? Was it illegal for vessels to be sold at that time without a patent mark?

As for the manufacturing waste found on the site - there is no evidence at all of anything matching the colour of 42.

[madweasel]

Re: my last. Of course it was not illegal.

[madweasel]

As for the history of the glass works, recent research suggests that this is the sequence for this short-lived site.

1853 - French establishes a glass works in Trimdon Street, the Sunderland Flint Glass Works..
1857 - Walton recorded as 'manager' of the Sunderland Flint Glass Works.
1858-9 - Angus and Greener partnership formed, trading as the Wear Flint Glass Works.
1859 - first A&G patent (117501)
1859-69 - numerous records of employment disputes, theft, fire, violence among workers.
1869 - Death of Angus. Greener trades alone.
1871 - Greener leaves Trimdon Street and sets up the Wear Flint Glass Works in Millfield. This is the famous works that was to become Jobling and co in 1921.
1873 - Samuel Neville, former partner of Sowerby, takes over the Trimdon Street works.
1874 - Neville stops trading.
1877 - A court order for the executors of Angus's will orders them to sell 'the Sunderland property'.
1897 - OS maps show terrace housing on the site. These were built following the demolition of the glass works, possibly as workers' housing for employees of local factories.

The following glass is from a different part of the site. Layer [143] was a dump of glass and building debris found int he entrance to what the 1859 OS plan labels as the 'office'.

[madweasel]

more

[neilh]

82 is definitely RD 221689 from 1868

[madweasel]

92 is the foot from RD 221689 too I think.

[flying free]

is your no 34
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70845.0;attach=242480;image

from something like this?

It says it's  RD no 81160
http://english-pressed-glass.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/greener-81160-2.jpg
http://english-pressed-glass.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/greener-81160.jpg
reg 15th Sept 1887
http://english-pressed-glass.com/?page_id=103

[madweasel]

That certainly has the hexagonal elements. The date of the patent, though, puts it with Greener's later glass works that was at Millfield, a decade after the Trimdon Street works had closed.

My 34 is very flat and I wonder if it could come from 117501. Its date (1858) fits with the Trimdon Street regime date, which A&G acquired in 1858-9. I think that patent must be for the profile decoration of the dish as other base designs are reported for that patent.

https://www.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery/displayimage.php?pos=-25589

It shows how Greener retained some decorative elements 30 years or so later.

[flying free]

The dish shown here has the reg lozenge on it, so evidence that pattern appeared on that reg number as you say:
https://www.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery/displayimage.php?pos=-25589