Topic: Angus & Greener on Trimdon Street, Sunderland

[Anne]

I have merged both the Angus and Greener topics by madweasel, so as to keep all this interesting information together.

[madweasel]

Hi all,
It's great John that you are now able to post some results of your dig. I think it was you who asked me about Waltons.
(Maybe an autocorrect changed "French/Walton" to "French/Watson"?)
I am away from home at the moment so can't look out my paper files on the Waltons, to engage with the topic, but will pick it up when I get home.
If any of the Sunderland glass is from the time Waltons had it, it would be the first glass I have heard of that's been found. There's bound to be some under the garage in Newton-le-Willows (Lancashire) which stands on top of their long-standing site there but who knows when that would ever be excavated. Waltons made glass on that site (N-le-W) from early 1870s to about 1900 - exclusively, apart from a brief period of a year or so before they started. (From memory, until I can open my files again.)

Hi Sally. I wonder if you are close to your Walton records? I am still confused as to his status with regards the flint works in Trimdon Street in 57/58. I see that he was facing money difficulties in the middle of the 1850s (various Durham Chronicle articles 1855-6), declaring himself bankrupt which probably led to the sale of the Haverton Hill works to pay his creditors (although I reckon he was fleeced by his accountant). But then his trail goes cold. Yes, he is reported in a trade directory as being a 'manager' of the Trimdon Street works but that might not confirm him as proprietor. Do you have confirmation of the latter?

[Sally]

Hi John
I am really sorry I didn't reply earlier. Life happens sometimes.
I have pulled out my files but I can't find anything better than what you already have. But I haven't done any research on this glassworks since about 2007. The census of 1861  RG. 9/3781 says Thomas Walton (age 60) is a Glass manufacturer. His son Thomas (28) is living with him, described as a glass maker. It was the latter who went to Japan.
I hope you have made progress with your work.
I'm at a stage with mine where I've given up primary research in favour of reviewing my 15 years of it, turning it around and repurposing it for a blog site. It would be interesting for me if/when you have any summaries of this topic that I could refer to in a post about the Waltons in the NE.  The Japanese may be interested.
With best wishes,
Sally

[madweasel]

Thank you for looking Sally. Much appreciated. I acknowledge the detail about which Walton went to Japan.

I will be in touch. My work is nearly complete. I have not found anything more about Walton, but it seems that French's fortunes went into a bit of a decline after he left Trimdon Street. The 61 census has him living nearby and described as a 'glass cutter'. Much later, when he has stopped working, a census records him as a 'retired flint glass maker'. You can see what he was proud of.

all the very best

[LinzC]

I'm not sure this will be of any help for you.  I have been looking into the Haverton Hill glass works recently, because I came across a reference to Sowerby & Co. operating the site and have been trying to construct a timeline of the occupiers/owners.  I believe Thomas Walton owned the Haverton Hill glass works from 1850-1855, and was running it with his brother Richard.  The 1851 census lists TW as living in Haverton Hill and being a glass manufacturer.  His brother Richard lived next door and was described as being in partnership with his brother.  When TW declared bankruptcy and moved up to Sunderland, his brother Richard appears to have moved to Lancashire.   

Whilst the 1861 census lists TW as a glass manufacturer, his address is given as High Southwick (which is on the opposite side of the river to Mill Field) although contemporary maps show a ferry between Low Southwick and Deptford. I'm only aware of crown and bottle works in Southwick at this time, so it seems plausible that he could be working at the Harrison Street works, which were situated in Deptford, near the Ballast Hills Mill. My understanding was that Angus & Greener operated from there until Angus died in 1869, at which point Greener moved to the glass works near Trimdon Street.

bws,
Lindsey

[madweasel]

Thanks for this Lindsey.

I have TW as manager of the Sunderland Flint Glass Works in Trimdon Street in an 1857 Directory reference (confirmed pers. comm. from Sally). Angus and Greener then take over in 1859 and Greener moved in 1872 to Millfield, the Wear Flint Glass Co. for which he is more famous. This is the place that was then to be owned by Jobling and, later, Corning.

It is just possible, although I can not confirm it, that TW was retained by A&G into the 1860s. As for Harrison Street, I have no idea what this glasshouse was. There is no such factory in that street whatsoever. I have a feeling that it is a false red herring buried in a thesis or two, related to Nicholas French who supposedly set up the Trimdon Street factory in 1853. Prior to that one modern scholar states, and others repeat, that he owned a glass house in Harrison Street, but I believe that was his home address and he actually owned the Ballast Hill works. It might be there that TW and French came into contact and French took TW as manager to Trimdon Street (note, the original modern scholar, in connection with French, also confuses Harrison Street with Trimdon Street).

Any thoughts?

John

[LinzC]

I've been reading old newspaper articles trying to get more info, on some of the claims made in a thesis or two, in relation to a glass works on Harrison Street.

Regarding Nicholas French; The Newcastle Journal, 21st June 1851, p5, reports that Nicholas French reopened a flint glass manufactory in Sunderland, which had been dormant for some time, during the past week.  During August 1853 there is a public house offered for sale, particulars available from Nicholas French at the Ballast Hills Glass Works (Durham Chronicle, 12th August 1853, p4, for example).  This is the time the new glass works at the foot of Trimdon Street is being constructed (Durham Chronicle, 8th April 1853, p.8 - states Nicholas French is erecting the new glass works). N.B. I haven't tracked down an address for the 1851 glassworks, yet (she says hopefully).

An 1855 map of Sunderland shows the Ballast Hills Mill at the bottom of Harrison Street (bear with me here).

In the Sunderland Daily Echo (Thursday 23rd November 1876, p.2) approval is recommended of the conversion of the old mill on Harrison Street to a glass manufactory, applicant being Joseph Thomas.  This glassworks goes on auction 13th May 1878 (e.g. Sunderland Daily Echo, Tues. 30th April 1878, p.2), particulars to be had from Joseph Thomas, 77 Old Trimdon Street. (On the 1855 map the streets are labelled Trimdon Street (where the glassworks are) and New Trimdon Street).

The address of Joseph Thomas' glass works are given as the Nil Desperandum Green & Flint Glass Works, Harrison Street, Ballast Hills, Bishopwearmouth.

In the 1855 map of Sunderland that I've been using for reference (6" Ordnance Survey), Harrison Street looks like small terraced housing, certainly the contemporary advertisements for rental properties fuel that assumption. So the only building likely to have been a glass house is the Ballast Hill Mill, which is where my hypothesis that this may have been French's original (1851 in the newspaper/1852 in the thesis) Harrison Street works comes in to play.  Obviously, it's just a theory that I'm still looking into.

best wishes,
Lindsey

[madweasel]

Hi Lindsey

Our notes kind of match, I have those newspaper references, but a little bit more detail about French. In 1851 a directory records him as 'Proprietor' (note, not manager) of the Ballast Hill Glass Works. So yes. French and Ballast Hill match nicely.

The tavern in question had been his father's but, on his father's death, I think his brother ran it. Obviously, in 1853, they decide to sell up.

What you have there about Harrison Street is interesting but it is outside my time frame. The Trimdon Street glass works had a very narrow timespan before it closed. nGreener left in 1972. I suspect that he was ripping off Angus's widow, who took the executors of her husband's will to court. They were trying to give Greener an extremely preferential deal with regards to continuing at Trimdon Street. The court orders that the executors be changed and Greener moves to Millfield. Samuel Neville, formerly in partnership with Sowerby, then takes over in May 1873, but the presence of Reed's Iron works next door, and their massive steam hammers, caused structural problems to the glass works (Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette – Tuesday 22 December 1874). Neville leaves in January 1874 and things then go quiet. I suspect, according to legal problems Angus's widow was having, that it was not until the mid 1870s that she and her children were able to realise their interests in the Trimdon Street property. It is then demolished and housing erected over its site.

All very interesting stuff. As it is outside my timeframe I never found that Harrison Street reference in 1878. That there was indeed a new glass house in Harrison Street from 1878 then yes, that might be where Ross, the modern scholar - who also mentions the Nil Depsernadum glass works (but confuses it with Angus and Greener's property) got her lines confused.

John