Topic: Frosted decanter.

[flying free]

    - There is such a huge amount of information all squished into that translation.  It's amazing.

[flying free]

Ekimp see also From Neuwelt to the Whole World, Jan Mergl - page 140 plate 168 - goblet, engraved in Harrachov, probably the workshop of Franz Zacher.  A partially matte-treated crystal glass.  Dates to 1804-1845.

Certainly seen matt treated glass from the 1820s in Das Bohmische glas.

m

[Ekimp]

Thanks, the effect looks similar to the decanter that started this thread but hard to see from the photo. They don’t seem to differentiate between types of matte treatment though, for example on page 188 plate 224 is an 1885 vase that is also ‘matte treated’, but perhaps by then it was matte treated by acid rather than abrasion.

Just noticed that MacConnell The Decanter page 281 says “The [acid etch] technique was bolstered from 1860 by the invention in France of white acid, a hydrofluoric acid/alkali solution that left a matt-white effect similar to engraving. Pellatt and others exhibited white acid decoration in London in 1862 and Paris in 1867”.

So according to McConnell white acid frosting was invented (first?) in France in 1860 so presumably it was just mechanical abrasion before then. White acid from Pellat isn’t mentioned by Hajdamach or Northwood II that seem to say in the U.K. white acid was invented by John Northwood I in around 1867. Hajdamach also says white acid “was known on the Continent well before the 1867 date of Northwood’s use”. That sounds earlier than McConnell’s 1860.

[flying free]

Farbenglas II shows a matt ground (agatised? -) superb goblet  on page 127 from Neuwelt.  It dates to 1837.  I think the description she gives on page 274 indicates this was mechanical ground (agatised? - ).  It's incredibly smooth and silky in the photograph and looks acid etched but it isn't.  She doesn't mention acid etching at all as far as I can see.  Her description of the surface being ground and the people who did the work is interesting.

m

[Ekimp]

Yes, I’m sure the goblet in the Harrach book has been mechanically ground, especially given what is said in Farbenglas. It’s a shame though that they don’t seem to say anything in the Harrach book to indicate when they might have started to also use acid matting, they just say ‘matte treated’. It would be useful to know when acid matting became available as an option.

For those without the Farbenglas book, page 127 showing the mechanically ground goblet can be seen here:
http://waltraudneuwirth.at/Buecher-Selbstverlag-Html/1993-Farbenglas%201-%20Farbenpaletten.html

[Ekimp]

Hajdamach on Northwood’s work on pages 184/185 says: “The effects produced by Northwood’s [acid etching] machines consisted only of outlines. If the areas inside the figures were to be shaded the glass was passed to the engraving shop. Broad copper wheels were used to matt [or frost] the surface...” [my square brackets]. He used this mechanical frosting over large areas as illustrated by a jug in Plate 166. He goes on to say Northwood then develops an acid etch frosting treatment used in conjunction with resists, but the grinding method was used by them until c1862.

The above from reply 8. The c1862 is a mistake, it should read c1867 (it was the jug show in plate 166 that was dated 1862). Could a mod edit it or add a note please?