Topic: Large Possibly Bohemian Enamelled & Gilded Pedestal Vases

[Ekimp]

Ok, thanks. You mention about the possibility of the frosting being used to improve adherence of the decoration which would seem a good idea, I don’t know if they worried about that. I don’t have any frosted glass with fancy decoration but a few pieces with gilt bands, like on Roy’s. On my pieces the gilding is only on the areas that are not frosted, no wonder it wears off!

[flying free]

I suppose you also have to take into account that these pieces we own have probably been handled by many people and dusted (hideous for gilding etc ) for many years - 100-150 years.  So in that context, not bad really.

The decorated and frosted transparent vases I'm referring to have all their various decorations both gilding and enamelling intact and date to the 1820s so 200 years ago.   They are in museum collections.  But that's another reason that makes me think they were not  'cheap'. 

[flying free]

I suppose you also have to take into account that these pieces we own have probably been handled by many people and dusted (hideous for gilding etc ) for many years - 100-150 years.  So in that context, not bad really.

The decorated and frosted transparent vases I'm referring to have all their various decorations both gilding and enamelling intact and date to the 1820s so 200 years ago.   They are in museum collections.  But that's another reason that makes me think they were not  'cheap'. 

So as an example of what I mean here, I have a piece of 'matted' glass from that period. It's a lilac blue with shades of darker blue  that turns red held close under bright light.  The enamelling on it is perfect, absolutely perfect. Fired on I think.  The gilding bands can be seen where they were placed but have been worn off.  It looks as though that portion wasn't 'matted' but I wonder if that's because the gilding was applied on top of a 'glue' to ensure the gilding adhered. So the glue has left a sheeny band to be seen where the gilding has almost completely worn off.

[Ekimp]

Yes, not fair to expect perfection after 100+ years I probably could have phrased that better when I said ‘cheap’ but was speculating that it may have been a less expensive or less technically demanding alternative to opaline glass, if in fact opaline glass was particularly expensive or difficult to produce.

It looks as though that portion wasn't 'matted' but I wonder if that's because the gilding was applied on top of a 'glue' to ensure the gilding adhered. So the glue has left a sheeny band to be seen where the gilding has almost completely worn off.

If there was a glue I would imaging you would be able to see signs of decay after 200 years. If the glue was a cold process and not fired on, it would’ve been something organic.

[Lustrousstone]

Gold is fired on; the glue is a size of some sort and the medium for applying the gold

[flying free]

Thank you Christine.  I thought it would be fired on and also couldn't remember the word 'size' for the glue!  My head's not really in a glass place at the moment. Well either that or my memory's shot 

[flying free]

Yes, not fair to expect perfection after 100+ years I probably could have phrased that better when I said ‘cheap’ but was speculating that it may have been a less expensive or less technically demanding alternative to opaline glass, if in fact opaline glass was particularly expensive or difficult to produce.

If there was a glue I would imaging you would be able to see signs of decay after 200 years. If the glue was a cold process and not fired on, it would’ve been something organic.

This is from The Engineer's and Mechanic's Encyclopaedia 1836  VOL II Luke Hebert - page 672 - a very detailed and thorough description of how size was made  and then the same also regarding size for gilding:

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Engineer_s_and_Mechanic_s_Encyclop%C3%A6/JPKzAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=uranium+glass+cornwall+1836&pg=PA679&printsec=frontcover