Topic: Edward Bolton 'Grace Darling' boat flower holder Reg. 23527 & 39414 - 1885.

[Paul S.]

thanks Nev.      Aside from yourself, it appears that Dave Peterson was the only contributor to comment that 'one Registration is for design and one for the name' - so that is a big help, and much appreciated, but as we can see from those contributors, the details surrounding the origins of what we now call the Ed. Bolton boat, are quite complex.      I will still visit Kew shortly as I think it will add interest etc., if we can have archive pix of both Registrations.    thanks again.

[LinzC]

So, I'm not sure if this will help any, but I have three variants of the Bolton boats; 13", 11" & 6.25".  All three of them have Rd 39414 on the back end of the boat.

The 11" boat has the words Grace Darling on the back, as well as Rd 23527 and the

Grace Darling
Boat
_._
Rd 23527

in the base.  I took it to mean that they'd registered 23527 as the "Grace Darling Boat" to prevent other people using the name, whilst the general shape and pattern was 39414.

I think the people of that time, were just shocked as anything that a woman rowed a boat and rescued people. Hence why they created a commemorative boat 50 years later.  The RNLI have a page about her https://rnli.org/about-us/our-history/timeline/1838-grace-darling

[NevB]

Thanks LinzC, I think that confirms my thoughts on the RD numbers. Mine has the two numbers and the name on the stern but not the word boat. It will be interesting to see what Paul comes up with.

[Paul S.]

I've managed to book a session at TNA for this coming Friday with the main purpose of looking at the records for these two Registrations/Representations.       If there were another one or possibly two unrelated items that someone is very keen to see, I could fit in at the same time, if details are provided. 

[LinzC]

That is a really kind offer Paul.  I still haven't made it down to look at the Holborn Glass Works registration yet, Rd.684000 (6th July 1921).   I've not come across another item with this registration number yet.  I'm so curious if the registration relates to the entire bowl, or the pattern, shape, etc.

It's not pressing though, I'll get down to Kew eventually, so if there is something else to look up don't worry.  If I worked this out correctly it's reference BT 52/702. 

[Paul S.]

Hi Lin.  Will certainly look this one up for you, and thanks for running down the Kew reference.  Assuming all goes well I'll post the results in due course.

[LinzC]

Thank you Paul

[Paul S.]

sorry to be a pain, but did a check late last evening on the suggestion of BT 52/702 for the Holborn Glass Works item, and came up with BT 52/909 for the Representations reference.     This item is included in the listing - toward the bottom of the page - for 'Non-Textile Registrations for 09/09/1909 through to 31/03/1950  ........    it is a long page         If you get the chance today you might have another look for me please - thanks.           The group in question occur in the second line of items - subheading 11.2.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/registered-designs-1839-1991/

[LinzC]

Hi Paul,

I found BT 52/909, covering designs 683936-684094, dated 1921 for design representations.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C441372

Is this what you needed?  I'm afraid I don't really understand how this all works yet. 

[Paul S.]

Hi - yes, I think it's BT 52/909 that we need  -  at least I shall find out if that's wrong tomorrow when I get there but hope not.              The range of Nos. 683936 to 684094 obviously includes your 684000, and that whole group will be shown within one Representations book  -  some of the books are immense and very heavy, and the leather on some of the C19 books suffer from 'red rot' - a breakdown of the leather where it becomes dry and powders.     This doesn't do white shirts a lot of good.
Representations books are the locations for all the pix, photos, drawings etc., that show an image of the item in some form or another, plus the Registration No. is stamped or shown in some way on the image.            The Registers are those books that include the text only - they detail the name of the Registrant, address, usually the CLASS of the item, and sometimes give a very brief description.              The Kew Register Reference for your item is BT 53/42, and I'll have a squint at this too should there be any additional information that we might consider of interest. 

As you can imagine, the total material of the Kew archive for Patents, Trade Marks and Registrations is truly vast, and most of the stuff we want relating to Registrations isn't available down to item level, so at best we need to order up the books covering, usually, a large number of Registrations which we know will include the item we want to research, so this always means a visit to Kew.

does this help you to understand a little of how TNA system works?