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Author Topic: Pub glass, presuming English.  (Read 868 times)

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Offline keith

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Pub glass, presuming English.
« on: September 22, 2021, 06:47:39 PM »
5 inches tall, very heavy, plenty of wear with the 't' mark to the base.

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Pub glass, presuming English.
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2021, 07:16:26 PM »
 :) Is it one of those deception glasses used by a toastmaster who wants to stay sober-ish?
I'm sure I can see the thickening of the internal walls. Looks a really lovely grey colour. 8)
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

‘For every problem there is a solution: neat, plausible and wrong’. H.L.Mencken

Offline Paul S.

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Re: Pub glass, presuming English.
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2021, 10:43:58 PM »
Nice find Keith - genuine piece of honest working man's drinking ware from when  -  what do you think, last quarter of the C19?             T or Y marks  are the result of the shears which cut the foot  free from the pontil rod when the glass was finished and are always on the underside of the foot.             The alternative to the pontil rod was the spring loaded gadget which held the foot of the glass, avoiding the scar, and superseded the pontil rod.     

Evidence of the use of a gadget is always found on the upper side of the foot - never the underside  - didn't that piece of knowledge cause embarrassment before it sunk in :-[     Take it that there aren't any pressure marks on the upper side of the foot?       

The glass looks thick toward the base of the bowl, but I wouldn't have thought a toastmasters glass  -  they were usually more refined anyway, and with a much smaller capacity for booze  -  I'm sure you are likely correct with this being a pub job.   

Offline keith

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Re: Pub glass, presuming English.
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2021, 11:17:03 PM »
It does have the look of a deception glass, Sue but it might be a bit too large for one of those, despite the thick glass you could still get a fair quantity in it.
Paul, think so mid to late Vic' will have to have another look for the gadget mark, had a busy day ! ::) ;D

Offline Paul S.

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Re: Pub glass, presuming English.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2021, 08:22:39 AM »
I suppose if someone went out of their way to look for and examine this type of drinking glass, then examples with gadget marks might be found more often  -  over the few years I did look I only found a single glass showing it had been held in the gadget.

Am assuming that all examples with scars, ground/polished pontil depressions and Y and T marks would have been finished on the pontil rod, not the gadget.           Have to say that on my one 'gadget' glass, the finish on the foot is rather crude, ​and no idea if this invention was something that was used in the U.K. only, or whether it found its way onto the Continent.

If you read Wilkinson, he looks to be saying that by c. 1830 the gadget appears and the pontil mark disappears  -  he also offers the same date to indicate the change in method of applying handles i.e. top down giving way to the reverse.
IMHO I think we have to read his comments using some latitude of interpretation  -  I know others have used a later date for the handle change, and whilst we don't see massive scars on the undersides of high domed feet, I'm sure there are lots of glasses made post c. 1830 through the C19 where scars of some size can still be found.   Obviously Wilkinson had a massive knowledge re glass but was perhaps a little too brief with his explanations.         
He also indirectly appears to offer an explanation as to perhaps why we don't see the gadget mark on feet as frequently as we might imagine  -  he says ..  apparently, c. 1900, the workers would use asbestos string - inside the gadget jaws - to create a softer grip on the foot of the glass  -  and Wilkinson says this 'eradicated' gadget marks on the glass.

Offline NevB

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Re: Pub glass, presuming English.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2021, 11:03:27 AM »
The information I have is the T mark indicates a date of 1860-80 but maybe as late as 1900 with a similar date for the gadget mark.
"I hear you're a racist now father!" Father Ted.

Offline keith

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Re: Pub glass, presuming English.
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2021, 12:31:16 PM »
No gadget mark visible on this one, I find the Wilkinson book to be a 'bit off' in it's attributions also.  ;D

Offline Paul S.

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Re: Pub glass, presuming English.
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2021, 01:33:34 PM »
thanks Keith  -  assume you're speaking more of the coloured 'Bohemian' material - and regret I know nothing of the accuracy or otherwise of that stuff.  :)

 

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