Topic: Striped Blown Glass Vase Identification needed Please

[Ekimp]

M, is this decor not also the same as the Flacon on page 125 of the Harrach book? The associated text is in the second column on page 114 where it says ‘...identified as Neuwelt product by Jarmila Brožová”.

Nice book btw

[flying free]

It does look similar and may be the same but my perception of the OP's vase was that the blue stripes were darker on the edges, rather than transparent on the edges which is what the Neuwelt stripe looks like to my eye.  Do you see them differently?  It's very hard to see on pics that aren't really large enough to see detail so I could be perceiving it incorrectly.
There is a long explanation of that piece in Das Bohmische Glas Band II as well.

OP's pictures are too small to really see the detail at all. If you are reading   is it possible to upload larger pictures to a 600x 400 pixels please?  Many thanks.

In addition to that though, the shape of the OP's vase is very similar to quite a few shapes by Clichy.  I wouldn't have said it was a Neuwelt or Bohemian shape at all.  That said, the flacon in the Neuwelt book isn't particularly Bohemian in shape admittedly, but it's much less 'distinctive' a shape than the OPs vase to be fair.


I'm not sure I agree with these comments in the reply above yours though:

Quote reply '100% Clichy. You will find the whole of the base has been polished to the rim of the base and not just a pontil polish to the centre. 1860-1890.'

I have a Clichy jug which does not have a polished pontil mark right to the edge.  It's in the middle - and the jug dates to about 1845.
I have another filigrana jug which is often referred to as Clichy but I believe is in fact Saint Louis. That also has a small polished pontil mark in the middle.  If I recall correctly Ivo said this was because of the way the canes were held on the pontil(??)  or for some technical reason.

Also, the book says of this decor 'Clichy  (attribué à)'.  So even the book is not that definitive on the decor.
And puts the decor at c.1850
Can't remember what date Clichy closed but will look it up.

[English weather]

Quote reply '100% Clichy. You will find the whole of the base has been polished to the rim of the base and not just a pontil polish to the centre. 1860-1890.'

I have a Clichy jug which does not have a polished pontil mark right to the edge.  It's in the middle - and the jug dates to about 1845.
I have another filigrana jug which is often referred to as Clichy but I believe is in fact Saint Louis. That also has a small polished pontil mark in the middle.  If I recall correctly Ivo said this was because of the way the canes were held on the pontil(??)  or for some technical reason.

Also, the book says of this decor 'Clichy  (attribué à)'.  So even the book is not that definitive on the decor.
And puts the decor at c.1850

I did not say that ALL Clichy would have a polished pontil right to the edge, only that the example under discussion did.

1850...1860...does it really make a difference? Also not produced one year only but over a commercial time.

If you care to question my 1860-1890, then where do you get your 1845 from? Where not Clichy paperweights, from which the vases in question a derivative, first produced in 1846?

[Ekimp]

It does look similar and may be the same but my perception of the OP's vase was that the blue stripes were darker on the edges, rather than transparent on the edges which is what the Neuwelt stripe looks like to my eye.  Do you see them differently?  It's very hard to see on pics that aren't really large enough to see detail so I could be perceiving it incorrectly.
There is a long explanation of that piece in Das Bohmische Glas Band II as well.

I’ve had to use a slight magnification, but I would say the photo in the book has the same blue stripes with a darker boarder just like yxeli’s example, then the clear gap before the white. It doesn't look to me as though it’s a shadow or optical effect. Easiest to see in the middle of the bottle and left side of the stopper where the light is direct. It is difficult to see though. Couldn’t comment on shape.

[flying free]

I did not say that ALL Clichy would have a polished pontil right to the edge, only that the example under discussion did.

1850...1860...does it really make a difference? Also not produced one year only but over a commercial time.

If you care to question my 1860-1890, then where do you get your 1845 from? Where not Clichy paperweights, from which the vases in question a derivative, first produced in 1846?

You quite rightly point out that you did not say all Clichy pieces have a large polished pontil mark.  I was just pointing out that one piece I own from that mid 1800s period, in fact dated by the book La Cristallerie de Clichy as c. 1845, has a normal polished pontil mark in the middle of the base. I did not say, but should have made clear, that it is not a filigrana piece.  It is enamel decorated on clear transparent glass.  I also pointed out that neither does another piece have a large polished pontil mark, a piece which is possibly from Saint Louis, is filigrana often seen sold as Clichy but a piece I believe could be from Saint Louis, a similar period mid 1800s.  And then pointing out what the reason might be why it has a smaller polished pontil mark. 

1850/1860 to me does make a difference though perhaps that's splitting hairs.  It depends what period you collect I guess.  My interest is in glass 1800-1850.  1850 was very near the start of the Clichy house and just around the 1851 Great Exhibition where they exhibited and Maes was awarded a medal.  Also as time goes on it's quite interesting to see in the book the development of the filigrana and also the types of shapes. They do change with the fashions to some degree.
There are quite a few filigrana pieces in the book that are dated to 1845-1850 - two of which, a pair, are a similar shape and filigrana decor to the OPs vase but are mounted with metal as jugs and set into metal bases.

I have no idea of the date when Clichy paperweights were invented/first produced.  There is very detailed information the book but I'd need to translate and I have no time at the moment.

[flying free]

This gives some information on the Cristallerie Clichy period - the sale to Sevres went ahead in 1889 and the name Clichy wasn't used after that if I understand it correctly (open to correction as had to translate):
1842-1889
https://leverreetlecristal.wordpress.com/tag/maes/

[English weather]

Why is the 1851 Exhibition of interest to you if as you say dates are significant to a person interested only up to 1850?

We were talking about filigree vases be they Clichy or St. Louis  and you choose to present without any qualification an item of a different and earlier period as an example.

Comparing apples with pears me thinks.

[English weather]

This gives some information on the Cristallerie Clichy period - the sale to Sevres went ahead in 1889 and the name Clichy wasn't used after that if I understand it correctly (open to correction as had to translate):

No, quite the opposite. The Sevres name was not used after 1889. It became known as  Cristallerie de Clichy

[flying free]

Interesting. Thanks.  Going back to the dates of the Clichy operation it seems that in 1895 Clichy closed.


https://www.clichy-tourisme.fr/decouvrir/patrimoine/la-cristallerie-maes/

The Office de Tourisme de Clichy La Garenne says:

'Vers 1895, l’entreprise ferme définitivement ses portes.'

It closed it's doors for good around 1895.


quote from site:
'La Cristallerie de Clichy a été fondée en 1842 par Louis-Joseph Maës. Elle est au XIXe siècle l’une des principales cristalleries françaises. Maës et Clémandot inventent un nouveau cristal appelé cristal de Clichy qui sera à la base de toutes les créations de la manufacture.

Cette innovation donne rapidement à la Cristallerie de Clichy une renommée mondiale et lui permet d’obtenir les plus hautes récompenses au cours des Expositions Universelles du XIXe siècle. La Rose de Clichy, un décor souvent utilisé dans ses presse-papiers, est une véritable signature de la Cristallerie de Clichy. Vers 1895, l’entreprise ferme définitivement ses portes. Il ne reste de la propriété que le terrain de la Croix-Rouge Française.'

[flying free]

This gives some information on the Cristallerie Clichy period - the sale to Sevres went ahead in 1889 and the name Clichy wasn't used after that if I understand it correctly (open to correction as had to translate):

No, quite the opposite. The Sevres name was not used after 1889. It became known as  Cristallerie de Clichy

In the book page 146 it appears to say that for a period
beyond 1896 Cristallerie Clichy existed under the name of 'Cristalleries de Sèvres et de Clichy Réunies' .