Topic: Striped Blown Glass Vase Identification needed Please

[English weather]

Flying free;   Interesting links etc. Kind of proves my point. None of the examples match the Clichy / St. Louis Blue and White / Pink and White tapes examples.

Nearest is the decanter on the video which has pink tapes only.  All the Blue and White are different to the Clichy / St. Louis in significant ways.

Similar, is not the same. The examples you give may well be German / Bohemian (I do not doubt it) but to extrapolate those examples to then state that the two ribbon examples to be the same maker is a jump to say the least. Even the filigree examples are different with non German / Bohemian shapes attributed to be German / Bohemian rather than French of known French shapes.

I am not questioning you but the German dealers / auction houses that choose to extend the attributions, in my mind, for their own sales agenda.

[flying free]

Flying free;   Interesting links etc. Kind of proves my point. None of the examples match the Clichy / St. Louis Blue and White / Pink and White tapes examples.

Nearest is the decanter on the video which has pink tapes only.  All the Blue and White are different to the Clichy / St. Louis in significant ways.

Similar, is not the same. The examples you give may well be German / Bohemian (I do not doubt it) but to extrapolate those examples to then state that the two ribbon examples to be the same maker is a jump to say the least. Even the filigree examples are different with non German / Bohemian shapes attributed to be German / Bohemian rather than French of known French shapes.

I am not questioning you but the German dealers / auction houses that choose to extend the attributions, in my mind, for their own sales agenda.

In the example of discussion on this thread, Antikes Neuwirth gives reference sources to the book by Stefania Zelasko with page number for references.  I do not have that book unfortunately.
 Dr Fischer gives reference sources to that book and to many others as well for their pieces.

The researchers of those books have had access to documentation that I could not ever hope to see.  I'm sure given their work and their research, they are aware of the contrast and compare to French work and what the differences are between them in order to come to their conclusions and produce the books and research. 


I have merely given you a few examples of Bohemian canework to try to demonstrate to you that filigrana glass was made in Bohemia and Silesia in the 19th century. 
I have supplied you with reference sources for the book which gives the info on millefiori paperweights from there going back to the 1830s.  (You mentioned the paperweights, hence me addressing that point).
I have given you links to examples of filigrana and caned pieces in the museums and shown you the person who wrote the book on Josephinenhutte, Dr Stefania Zelasko.  That is the reference source that Antikes Neuwirth and Dr Fischer Auctions give for some of their items which have been linked to.  Hence me providing that link to the museum video of some of the collection in that museum. 
I never claimed to be able to show you the entire array of every piece of filigrana or cane work made in Bohemia in Silesia at that time.  I was just trying to demonstrate my point that saying something is French does not necessarily make it so especially if there might be a decor match from elsewhere.

You have just said ' I don't believe it'. 
Questioning is anyone's prerogative of course.   

I wasn't trying to 'prove' the OP's vase or yours was made in Bohemia.  But quite clearly there is a blue and white filigrana/caned perfume bottle in the 'From Neuwelt to the Whole World' book.  It was also shown in Das Bohmische Glass Band II written much earlier.  It has canes that look like the ones on the OP's vase.  I can't show you the actual piece as it's in the books and isn't in that particular museum collection video I linked to, but both myself and Ekimp have the book and can confirm the canes are the same/or so similar to the ones on the OP's piece as to be confusing.  And I don't have time to go through all my references to see if I can find the one in the book in another of the museum collections online I'm afraid. So you are going to have to take our word for it.

 You questioned the Bohemian connection.  That piece in the book is not a one off piece of odd filigrana, there are many examples which is what I was trying to show.  I hope you can see from my links there are others from other makers in the region.
Filigrana and caned pieces were being made there at that time (mid 1800s) and therefore I would suggest it is not just a simple case of being able to say the OP's vase is French.  Even less so being able to say the OP's vase is by a particular maker when even the Clichy book refers to the piece with similar canes as being 'attributed to'.  So in my view, it just isn't that simple. 

Also, to compound the query, canes moved from maker to maker as I understand it.

It may be French, it may be Clichy.  But a shape match is needed to confirm that in my opinion.  Do you have a shape match reference source?

[English weather]

I can't show you the actual piece as it's in the books and isn't in that particular museum collection video I linked to, but both myself and Ekimp have the book and can confirm the canes are the same/or so similar to the ones on the OP's piece as to be confusing. 

Why can't you show me the picture in the book? If you reference it to be from that book then you can show it.

Best practice is to name the book and author, the page number and figure number if relevant.

[English weather]

You questioned the Bohemian connection.

I do not at all, question the Bohemian connection. What I do question is the attribution of many of these two colour tapes pieces to Bohemia.

Indeed, I have a book somewhere that states Bohemia reintroduced the former Venetian cane / filigree style pieces in around 1830.

[flying free]

M, is this decor not also the same as the Flacon on page 125 of the Harrach book? The associated text is in the second column on page 114 where it says ‘...identified as Neuwelt product by Jarmila Brožová”.

Nice book btw

I know what best practice is   - my books and research cost me a lot of money and time.  I give what information or ideas I think I might have, openly and freely to be debated, because I love glass and love researching and discussing it.  As do most on this board.  I do sometimes wonder why I don't behave with more reticence.

Ekimp gave the page number 125 - the illustration number is 142

The book is called From Neuwelt to the Whole World - it's copyrighted.  But I'm sure there will be copies available to buy:

Concept and Text Copyright Jan Mergl, 2012
Text Copyright Helena Brozkova, Jarmila Brozova, Florian Knothe, Jan Lustinec, Jan Mergl, Lenka Merglova Pankova, Jan Schottner , 2012
Photo Copyright Gabriel Urbanek, Ondrej Kocourek, 2012
Copyright Arbor Vitae, 2012
Copyright Museum of Decorative Arts in Prague,2012

[flying free]

You questioned the Bohemian connection.

I do not at all, question the Bohemian connection. What I do question is the attribution of many of these two colour tapes pieces to Bohemia.

Indeed, I have a book somewhere that states Bohemia reintroduced the former Venetian cane / filigree style pieces in around 1830.

Perhaps you need to get more books about Bohemian Glass, read more of the documentation available online - much  in German and Czech language but there's a lot out there.  The net is incredibly informative.

[English weather]

Perhaps you need to get more books about Bohemian Glass, read more of the documentation available online - much  in German and Czech language but there's a lot out there.  The net is incredibly informative.

The Net is also incredibly misleading due to people issuing misleading information and attribution albeit in good faith. Once it is there,(on the Net), it can be referred to in what becomes a game of Chinese Whisper. Changing just a little in every hand down.

A classic was when Basil Loverage wrote an article on Gray-Stan glass. The article: Gray-Stan Glass by Basil Loverage was later quoted as being: Gray-Stan Glass made by Basil Loverage. One additional word, a world of difference.