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Author Topic: Enamelled glass Wager Cup  (Read 2304 times)

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Offline Glas des Historismus

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2024, 07:05:53 AM »
Thank you for the warm welcome, as well as the compliments, and your messages, m. I am German, and a retired electronics, electrical and mechanical engineer. All of these require that I be detailed. lol

For 40 years, I’ve been researching antique Central European enamel decorated glass, with emphasis on Fritz Heckert replicas of Renaissance and Baroque drinking vessels (,,im altdeutschem Stil” – EN, in the old German style), such as the Reichsadlerhumpen, and of which, I have a very substantial collection of vessels from that series, as well as many other Heckert pieces, mostly Römers.

To address the last item first, I am not aware that any such items were produced in India, in silver. India is known the world over for its brass work.

Now for the vase. Let me begin with, the iridizing process was discovered by the chemists at Petersdorfer Glashütte Fritz Heckert, prior to 1890. They were seeking a method to mimic the chemical change that Roman glass excavated on the island of Cypress underwent, after having been buried there for more than 2 millennia. The iridizing occurred as the result of the chemical reaction between the glass and the minerals in the surrounding soil.

That is why, after the discovery at the Heckert glassworks, the colour of Heckert vases are described as the color plus the word Cypern, which is German for Cypress. For example, Krystallcypern (a whitish colour), Goldcypern (gold), Azurcypern (blue, green), Bronzecypern (a goldish/greenish colour), or simply, Cypernglas, regardless of colour. Unless you can read/understand German, and have read all of the books on Heckert, the average English speaking collector would never know this.

Take a guess at what colour the subject vase is? Hint: it’s Goldcypern. The glass pattern looks very familiar, like it’s from the Heckert “Kairo-Serie”.  Based on the finish. It looks to be by Josephinenhütte, with whom Heckert shared the process, and marketed directly, or made by Josephinenhütte and marketed by Heckert. I’d date the vase as 1890, or later. The finish on the VA vase, is Bronzecypern.

One of my many research projects is to catalog the glass patterns in the various Josephinenhütte pattern books, because many were also supplied to Heckert. I’m currently working on the Series 400 pattern book, with many more pattern books still to go. I will update should I find that particular pattern.

I haven’t spoken to Maria (The Guilded Curio) in years. I corrected her on various Heckert items within her collection, but it seems that she never implemented them. I have to disagree with the assessment of Neuwirth – I have seen many errors in his listings, and don’t even get me started on his outrageous prices – really over the top. Case in point: he recently listed a Pokal. Nothing about the listing is correct. Not his assumption about the decoration, or his assumption about the maker and where made. He truly disappoints me. Now, Uwe Wolf of Glas Wolf, who I’ve known for years, is the exact opposite. Ditto for Jan at Glas Kilian.

Rolf-Dieter

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Offline flying free

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2024, 10:53:08 AM »
Thank you for your additional information.  It's appreciated.

I will look into the "Kairo-Serie" further to see if I can find a match to the little vase and thank you for offering to add information should you come across it in the pattern books.
It's a long time ago now but I think when I was looking into that vase it seemed to me the iridescent finish on the Josephinenhutte pieces was different to that on the pieces produced at Heckert.  I came to the conclusion mine was produced at Josephinenhutte. But as I say it was a long time ago and I might have misremembered.

There is  some interesting and detailed information here on silver enamelled production in India and how difficult it was:
https://www.josephcohenantiques.com/products/antique-mughal-parcel-gilt-silver-enamelled-minakari-jug-chuski-mughal-india-late-18th-century
And now, having re-read the information  in that article, I have some more research to do on my platter regarding place of production/era of production given the difficulty of enamelling on silver detailed in the article.




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Offline Glas des Historismus

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2024, 10:47:15 PM »
I don't know why I hadn't thought of it yesterday (getting old and it was late), but I will have a look through my Heckert glass image library of about 14,000 images. None of the Heckert books are all encompassing. Update: I cannot for the life of me find the message where you referred to your vase. I've looked through the relevant files, and going by memory (for me, a bad idea), I may have come across a couple of similar vases by Heckert (images attached). One is a Sütterlin vase (cat. no. unknown - take a look at the applied handles, rather than the shape of the vase), c. 1902. The other is a Prof. Rade designed vase from Kollektion Kairo (I erred yesterday, these are referred to as Kollektion Kairo, Serie I & Serie II), c. 1890. The attached image is of vase 4737 KII (glass pattern 4737, Kollektion Kairo, Serie II).

Well, I’ll be. I’d have never known that had I not made your acquaintance. Thank you for that. That chuski is a beautiful piece. The decoration looks very similar to the decoration found on Jodhpur wares. It is curious that the chuski has no handle. On the other hand, silver dissipates heat quickly, similar to aluminum. Although I haven’t investigated the mechanics behind it, placing silver, such as a spoon, in a glass vessel, will prevent the hot liquid from shattering the vessel. Incidentally, Russia is well known for producing masterpieces in the form of engraved and enamel decorated silver objects, such as tea caddies. You might look into this to see how their process differs from that used in India.

Rolf-Dieter

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Offline Glas des Historismus

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2024, 10:53:47 PM »
Not used to this message system yet. Forced to resize image.

Please find the image of the Prof. Rade vase attached.

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2024, 11:47:37 PM »
Thank you.  They are lovely examples. I note the handles and the shape of the little foot/base etc.  There are many similarities with my vase.
Interestingly the iridescent finish on the green one is different to the white one.
That was something I had picked up on in the thread on my gold vase. 
See my post regarding this here:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50483.msg288408.html#msg288408

I think the iridescence on mine is crackly like the green one you show.
The iridescence on the white one you show is smooth and I think the iridescence was applied or fired differently to create the different smooth surface.  So maybe on type produced at Fritz Heckert, I thought the crackly surface as in my gold vase, and the other at Josephinehutte perhaps.
My little gold vase is here:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,50483.msg320331.html#msg320331

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Offline Glas des Historismus

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2024, 01:15:23 AM »
Following the top link, 2 links are provided there. The 1st link no longer functions as eBay doesn't archive completed listings for very long. The 2nd link takes you to CW. I disagree with user "Bohemian Art Glass" that Cypern was a series. It was simply a finish. In any case, and considering the vases shown there, there is a similar vase currently listed on eBay in Azurcypern:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204630369861

Thank you for the link to your vase. I'll be sure to save the images this time, which is what I should have done to begin with.

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2024, 11:54:12 PM »
Thank you for the new link.  Good colour and photographs.
Of all my iridescent glass absolutely none has this 'snakeskin' or tiny crackled effect iridescent surface except for my small gold vase.
I think this is either a Josephinenhutte finish or a Fritz Heckert finish.  I wonder which one?

m

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Offline Glas des Historismus

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2024, 01:42:48 AM »
To be honest, as I research/collect the Heckert drinking vessel replicas, his wine glasses and his sparkling wine beakers, which are all very different from the vases, I have little experience with the vases, other than what I’ve read and have seen in the many images that I’ve collected over the years.

Here's a small taste in the attached image of mostly Heckert items...

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2024, 10:45:37 PM »
That's a lovely collection  :)

It's not a period I'm all that familiar with to be honest.  My interest is in much earlier glass from pre 1850 but it's always amazing to see pieces that are so good they could be in a museum collection.

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Offline Glas des Historismus

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Re: Enamelled glass Wager Cup
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2024, 11:59:46 PM »
I should have added that the mentioned replicas, are replicas of Renaissance/Baroque period pieces, the original examples of which are mostly irreplaceable and quite valuable (ex. $15,000-35,000 for a large imperial eagle beaker).

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