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Author Topic: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?  (Read 1628 times)

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Offline antonizz

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Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« on: January 14, 2022, 10:31:11 PM »
Hi everybody,

I have bought a campana-style vase online last week.

To some of you my name might sound familiar, due to the many opaline glass related posts I've placed here.
I almost only buy opaline glass.

Now on the pictures it looked like some biedermeier opaline I had.
The pictures weren't that great. But today I received it, and I was dissapointed to see that
there was the part of the glass broken off. The seller hadn't mentioned that in the description.
Only a chip that was off, was mentioned.

Now this glass seems very soapy. Even on the place were it's damaged.
It's soapy all through out. (If that's good English)
But it's not polished or anything, and it's surface isn't smooth.

I haven't seen anything like this before.

I've also bought it as French opaline glass, from the 19th century.
And the style might be a mix of French and Bohemian, but it highly doubt
that it's that old. I think it's molded glass, and the metal mount are
detachable with little screws.

It's just the glass itself that raises serious questions to me.
It looks like opaline, but I don't think it is.

It might be some later fabricated crap.

But what?


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Offline antonizz

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2022, 10:32:22 PM »
More pics..

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Offline antonizz

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2022, 10:34:14 PM »
..

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Offline LEGSY

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2022, 11:33:31 PM »
Hi There we find it so difficult without holding glass to really get to know a piece from the photographs
as you have taken a few i have looked hard and i am thinking it looks quite a lot like Alabaster glass.
There are many companies who produced this in many countries. I have just looked on the Loetz website
and they made Alabaster glass early early on but sadly  i could not see any with metal mounts fitted so i am thinking
whether this metal mounted form might be of a French maker sorry i am just speaking my mind nothing
firm i am afraid. But i would like to know more and i am sure someone else will come along who knows more :)
Good luck with your search

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Offline antonizz

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2022, 12:01:51 AM »
Hi,

Yes, of course. Don't mind. Any help is welcome.
I am aware of alabaster glass. It's a little hard to tell what is opaline and what is alabaster glass.
I got a couple of items myself.

Most opaline are from France. Officially ònly French glass from a certain period can be called opaline.
But you see it come back in Italy later on as well. Also the milkglass lampshades etc.  are called opaline.

Then from outside of France, mainly bohemia and countries arround, you see opaline glass ànd alabaster glass.
It hard to tell. But when a piece isn't as smooth as the real deal, often I call it alabaster glass. Linked to opaline.
Maybe I'm making up my own rules here, it's easier to see than to tell. Then you also got another term 'bristol glass'.

But... this piece is just weird.   :P

I don't believe it alabaster glass.
In the pictures it like this:

https://www.etsy.com/nl/listing/1110473577/zeldzame-antieke-opaline-glazen-bierpul?click_key=f913d3ac493c4575e268d3b6518f08fc76612c7c%3A1110473577&click_sum=6da26bf0&ref=shop_home_active_11

It's a piece from my shop.
You can also see the rest of my items there.


Thanks for your help! ;)

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2022, 09:37:26 AM »
Hi - sorry to hear of your problems with this piece.          We have spilled much ink on these pages discussing pastel shaded translucent glass which is described variously as opaline, opal, opalescent, milk glass and alabaster and confusion will no doubt continue, mostly because many of us no longer take the trouble to learn about glass, and I mean really learn  -  almost any piece of coloured glass is now described as opaline.
On my screen this piece has a satinized surface finish, an appearance that was  fashionable in the U.K. (and possibly elsewhere of course) from the 1920s on mass-produced mould made glass, and U.K. glass maker Bagley produced many designs with this finish - an effect whereby sandblasting gave a slightly textured surface all over while acid etching produced a silky opaque finish.           This piece doesn't look to be old, though I've no idea as to its age- it might be recent, or have a little age.               I'm simply making the observation that the surface here appears to be  satinized (acid or sandblasted) over a moulded body  -   and assume your 'soapy' might equate to my satinized  -  but this piece does not have the appearance of opaline, which should show as a highly reflective surface with some translucence.            But, all of this you will know of course, and from your words it appears your judgment was affected by "the pictures that weren't that great".      You'll also know that opaline pieces did often have gilt/ormolu mounts, but here the condition of the mount looks exceptionally good for the C19.          Your German/Bohemian C19 blue beer mug/tankard showing in your link is how opaline should appear - though I'm unsure as to why you describe this as opaline/alabaster  -  surely it's either one or the other?

""Alabaster is described as a type of ornamental translucent glass developed by Frederick Carder at Steuben glass works in the 1920s.      It resembles the mineral (alabaster, so usually white), after which it was named, with iridescence produced by spraying with stannous chloride before re-heating at the fire (furnace).""          So, aside from the fact that alabaster probably wasn't produced in deep pastel colours, then your beer can will also not be alabaster since it was made (most likely) in the wrong century. ;D

But, back to your disappointing purchase  -  you should really request a refund since the appearance of the item here doesn't qualify it as opaline  -  but we all make mistake - it's part of how we acquire experience and knowledge  -  people who don't make mistakes don't usually make anything.                             Wish you luck.

Grateful if you are able to explain your reference to  'Bristol Glass'.           In the U.K. we use this expression  -  mostly  -   to describe glass of a very deep rich blue - not the blue of your beer mug  -  and for which the recipe included smalt (cobalt oxide apparently) - however bristol colours also include dark green and red.   thanks.

definition of alabaster taken from Harold Newman's 'An Illustrated Dictionary Of Glass'.

         


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Offline antonizz

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2022, 11:10:45 AM »
Hi Paul,

Thank you for your reply.
You're absolutely right about about the real learning part. I definitely didn't.
To make it even funnier, there's also "Opaline de Foire", which is a poor man's opaline.
These are the molded milky glass things, made by Vallerysthal etc.

Back to piece itself..
You mentioned the satinized finish. That's what I thought at first.
But the things is.. if it was only a finish on the outside, then the part were the piece was broken off, it should be
untreated within. This really looks like a mix between opaline, alabaster glass and what not.

I'm sure it's made somewhere in the 20th century. Can't name a country.
The later opalines are mostly from Italy. But the brace-shape top is more Bohemian.

Yesterday, I have indeed made a request to return the item. I paid about € 380 for it.
I also said I doubted the dating and even the material.

Just now I receive a reply saying that it's:
Opaline glass, from the Louis Philippe era, about 1845.
,,En verre granité comme a fait baccarat ou saint Louis".
(Granite glass, like Baccarat or Saint-Louis made it.)

I never heard of this 'verre granité'. It's probably like satin finish or crackle finish.
A quick search didn't really discover anything.

About the alabaster glass;
I do struggle with this though. I also didn't know that it was 'invented' in the 1920's.
I have to say there are pieces from the 19th century, which I myself describe as opaline/alabaster glass.
Now why I do that?  Because something in me says, this is alabaster glass, more than opaline.
But it would still go for opaline.  Therefore I'm putting the "/" in the description.
Plus, I don't only do that to white pieces, like for example the blue beer jug.

I will try to explain my thoughts here, because I feel like there ìs a difference between the 2 sorts of glass.
Maybe I'm wrong about the opaline-alabaster distinction.  But there is a difference.

The opalines from France, I have the least trouble with. Sometimes I could still be wrong, but most of the times I'm right.
I recognize the style. The glass itself. The era. And I have 2 opaline books, and a self-made database to go with.
(Once again, I'm the one who learned only from pictures. Little to no reading.)

Now the glass that I described as alabaster glass, or at least I'm unsure about:

This glass has the appearance of opaline glass. It mostly online goes as opaline glass.
I'll find some pieces online, and sum up some links under here as I write.

I would describe it as, more cloudy glass. Troubled glass. With more bubbles inside.
Also it has, I don't know how to say it in English...  It has streaks/wipes/smudges/fades in it.
Unfortunately (or not) I have sold most of my boxes the last month, so I don't have anything to show right now.
I'll try to find pictures of my old boxes.

It has sort of change or transition in the glass, like lithyalin glass has.
But, other than lithyalin glass, these are transitions with the same color.
Which you could also simply see as 'lower quality' glass.

It's hard to keep my finger on it, but thàt to me is the difference.


(The bristol glass discussion, I don't really have any facts on to really discuss it.
I just know what the mainstreams sees as bristol glass. And it's not only limited to deeper colors.)
I could easily be wrong with it, but maybe I'll show some examples later, of what I think it is.

In the pictures is a white opaline glass? :P box.
This is what I would call either opaline or alabaster glass.
It has some bubbles and imperfections in it. Also the 'swipes' but that not visible in pictures, unfortunately.

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Offline Paul S.

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2022, 12:54:58 PM »
..............   and I thought my posts were long  ;D ;D          Obviously you have more experience and hands on regarding opaline than me  -  but I would still maintain that true opaline should have a highly reflective surface and not a satinized finish as appears on this piece.                  I had also always believed that, due to the make-up of opaline, there should be a 'sunset glow' (transmitted fire coloured glow) when held to a strong light source.

Like you I too don't understand the seller's response, and can only suggest that you ask for some proof of providence to support their C19 attribution.

Your box looks good, and whilst not a strong pastel colour the fact that it's 'white' doesn't mean it's not opaline  -  I assume it's slightly translucent.             You do seem to have some 'troubled glass', though regret unlikely we are able to help further.

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Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2022, 12:57:56 PM »
 :) There is something about the whole thing that screams "made yesterday" to me.
But I am ignorant about opaline glass and older work.
The metalwork is far too shiney bright.
The undeclared damage should be sufficient for you to get your refund. You have it in your hands and you're not happy with it.
You know what you like and what you want, and you are very unsure about this. I'd say you should trust your feelings.  :)
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

‘For every problem there is a solution: neat, plausible and wrong’. H.L.Mencken

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Offline antonizz

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Re: Has anybody ever seen this kind of glass before?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2022, 03:07:00 PM »
I have to acknowledge this..
The seller just told me. I might have translated it wrong.

It says in the description, something like: There's a small chip off under the rim.
I thought it said at the rim.

But to define small...
There's a obvious chip off, which I thought he/she meant.

I'll show you the pictures.
There's a small chip, and a big piece.
Now the big piece that's broken off wasn't photographed. The small one was.

Anyway, they've accepted my refund.

In my opinion, if there's a big piece off, shouldn't place it to the backside when making pictures,
like some auction houses do.


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