Topic: Antique glass with an engraved XX cut into the rim of the bowl. 1800s date

[flying free]

Thanks for the great links Ekimp.

To be honest the first one I've seen in cut glass dates to c.1830s and is a pineapple shape  - referred to as such in the caption if I recall correctly.  The second oldest one I've seen is most ornate and is in the Farbenglas book.  That's a water melon shape or marrow shaped horizontal box with lots of ribs carefully handcut  into it, the ribs are gilded as well as the stalk and it's sat on a leaf shaped underplate with cut rim and also all gilded with gilded veins and edging to the intricately serrated rim. It's in transparent dark green glass so pretty true to marrow shaped form or watermelon perhaps and lots of manhours gone into the making and decorating.
I think they were used with stalks either with ribs or without throughout the 1800s, but in the Harrach book it discusses how they gradually used ribs on them to denote a peeled fruit/vegetable type thing if I've remembered correctly.  I think they were used in all forms but perhaps became less ornate as the century wore on simply because less manhours required for a simpler shape?  Then of course the snake handled boxes came into fashion in the 1860s.

The ones you've pointed out in the unknown maker catalogue appear to be eisglas.  That book looks maybe 1870s to me looking at the other pieces in there. I don't know why they've mentioned 1865/1905. Perhaps it does date to 1865? Some of the white enamelling on coloured glass looks like Julius Mulhaus to me.  Interesting that of the two stalk boxes which look like eisglas one has a round plate and the other is a ribbed box and so has a ribbed underplate to match (more expensive option than the plain one maybe?)

Food for thought! thank you for the links.

m

[Ekimp]

 
On page 83 of the unknown catalogue they show a texture that looks like a crackle type finish whereas I thought the drawing of the boxes looks to show a more granular effect. Shame they don’t know the factory or at least a date. I like the lizards eating the melting rim on page 65.

I bought Farbenglas 1 after you recommended it a while ago as it wasn’t very expensive. It’s not my favourite book to be honest…it’s a bit wordy…and German words at that! On the melon box it looks like they have put the stem in the wrong place, surely should be on the end where the segments come together. Nice box though.

[flying free]

I've seen that vase with the lizards eating the rim somewhere - the real thing.  Just been trying to wrack my brain to remember where.

Have you read the end of Farbenglas I from page 253 onwards?  That's the English translation of the German text throughout the book.  It's all concentrated together as no need for photographs as they're already in the German part of the book.  The photographs are also captioned in German and then English underneath as I'm sure you've seen.  But the text in English is a translation of the rest of the book all concentrated together between pages 253 and 280.  It gives  incredible detail of the coloured glass shown at the various exhibitions especially Vienna in the 1830s and then onwards.  Really fascinating info and it's all in English.  It's an absolutely fascinating book because that glass was bought or given to the Technisches Museum Wien at the time it was made and then catalogued into the collection.  So the dates and info from those archives are illuminating and definitive.

RE the stalk on the green melon box, the thing is, if it were at the end it wouldn't function as a handle to lift the lid.  Artistic licence and all that.  And that box is an example of a piece of glass I would never have believed was dated to c.1840.  It's unbelievably forward thinking and modernist.  I love that piece.

I know what you mean about them looking as though they are a granular effect and they could be, but I think it's supposed to represent rough glass, like Eisglas.

m

[Ekimp]

Ha, no, I didn’t know about the English translation in the back Thanks, that makes a big difference. I would’ve seen a blur of small condensed text at the back and thought I’ll never translate all that and so didn’t even register it was in English!

[flying free]

Easy to miss if you are reading through the book page by page and to then be left believing it is just the photo captions that are translated.

I think it's the most incredibly informative work on coloured glass development.  The best resource in my library for development of Bohemian glass in the period I'm interested in.

m

[flying free]

Thanks for the great links Ekimp.

To be honest the first one I've seen in cut glass dates to c.1830s and is a pineapple shape  - referred to as such in the caption if I recall correctly.  The second oldest one I've seen is most ornate and is in the Farbenglas book.  That's a water melon shape or marrow shaped horizontal box with lots of ribs carefully handcut  into it, the ribs are gilded as well as the stalk and it's sat on a leaf shaped underplate with cut rim and also all gilded with gilded veins and edging to the intricately serrated rim. It's in transparent dark green glass so pretty true to marrow shaped form or watermelon perhaps and lots of manhours gone into the making and decorating.
I think they were used with stalks either with ribs or without throughout the 1800s, but in the Harrach book it discusses how they gradually used ribs on them to denote a peeled fruit/vegetable type thing if I've remembered correctly.  I think they were used in all forms but perhaps became less ornate as the century wore on simply because less manhours required for a simpler shape?  Then of course the snake handled boxes came into fashion in the 1860s.

The ones you've pointed out in the unknown maker catalogue appear to be eisglas.  That book looks maybe 1870s to me looking at the other pieces in there. I don't know why they've mentioned 1865/1905. Perhaps it does date to 1865? Some of the white enamelling on coloured glass looks like Julius Mulhaus to me.  Interesting that of the two stalk boxes which look like eisglas one has a round plate and the other is a ribbed box and so has a ribbed underplate to match (more expensive option than the plain one maybe?)

Food for thought! thank you for the links.

m

Here is a picture of the piece that dates to the 1830s I mentioned above 
It's I think denoted as a pineapple in the book:

http://czechfoodiesmn.blogspot.com/2011/03/bohemian-glass-at-glasmuseum-passau.html

[Ekimp]

I've seen that vase with the lizards eating the rim somewhere - the real thing.  Just been trying to wrack my brain to remember where.

Off topic but found a screen dump I had taken of a vase with lizards eating a rim but had forgotten about it. You can see the vase here: https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/58093970_moserharrach-salamander-vase

They go for Moser/Harrach but looks almost the same as the one from the catalogue of unknown maker.

[flying free]

ooh good find!

I keep meaning to go back to that catalogue and have a good look.

m

[glassobsessed]

A somewhat sumptuous melon form with under plate:
https://www.gazette-drouot.com/article/les-opalines-un-art-tres-francais/6244

John

[flying free]

I think that's Bohemian   nice colour