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Author Topic: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882  (Read 1533 times)

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Offline MHT

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2022, 05:32:45 PM »
m

Don't believe everything you read:-)

I used the wrong phrase, I was thinking of a patent for Vitro Porcelain and used the word for Blanc de Lait. I should have said BdL
was 'introduced' in 1880. As far as I know there was no patent, so no mention of opalescent.

The information came from Slack:

On 1 May 1880 a new glass was announced and a report of that date in the Pottery Gazette gave the following appraisal:

Amongst the latest novelties in glass is an article called Blanc-de-Lait ware by Sowerby and Co. We begin to look every spring for something new in the fancy line by this firm,
and this year they certainly introduced a very cheap, pretty, and charming novelty, and they deserve great praise for putting into the hands of the people of slender means an articleof fine and undoubted taste.

Slack goes on to say:
This 'new' glass was a beautiful opalescent material which Sowerby's had been perfecting for some time, and was based on an original recipe for the production of their free-brlow glass.

So we have this from Slack, no proof that this new Blanc de Lait glass was opalescent but very similar opalescent was certainly used in some of their art glass. 

Yes, Sowerby did make Stained glass, they had a separate workshop called  the Gateshead Stained Glass Company.
Cottle has a 4 page chapter about the workshop. There is also a book: Saints & Symbols, The Stained Glass of Ford Madox Brown, William De Morgan, John George Sowerby, Walter Crane and Frederic Shields, but I haven't read that yet.

Mike
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

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Offline flying free

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2022, 07:46:49 PM »
Thanks Mike.  So sorry ... I feel like a dog with a bone here.  Apologies for all the questions.  And I have to admit my huge interest in this is because I'm very interested in opaline and opalescent glass developments.  I don't own any Sowerby that I know of unfortunately.

Thank you for the information on their Stained glass company.  Something occurred to me. The advertisement referred to 'Stained Blanc-de-Lait' didn't it?  At that time, the word stained was used in conjunction with stained window glass I think?  as it is now. i.e. if someone said 'stained glass' to me, I'd think of window glass in colours.  If it was, the why would they use it as a descriptor of Blanc-de-Lait?  for what purpose I mean.  What were they trying to communicate to their buyers?

Offline MHT

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2022, 11:37:07 PM »
Apologies to Mike for hijacking his thread, but I hope this is interesting.

If someone said Stained Glass to me, like you, I would think of coloured glass. In fact I have a lot of it in the shed from a past life.
But, original stained glass windows were not made of coloured glass but clear glass painted with various pigments which when fired produced the colours.
 
There was a previous thread on here which is worth re-visiting: https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,45056.10.html
Referring to a picture in Cottle of a group of enameled opal vases, Bernard C says, 'J.G.(Sowerby) would not have considered enameling relevant to the colour of glass. Enameling, even fired-on enameling, was a decorative process, nothing to do with glassmaking, as it could be used on pottery, china, and metal as well. So he would have regarded the group shown not as stained, as it says in the caption, but painted or decorated with enamel.'

On my Glass Colours webpage I wrote:
I agree with this sentiment. While most Blanc de Lait items are opalescent clear glass, there are also a significant number found in a pale green opalescent glass which does not appear to have a specific name. I believe this colour could be the 'stained' Blanc de Lait referred to in the advertisement. It is also possible the the 'stained' idiom may refer to the very rare pink tinted 'Blanc de Lait', referred to above as Rose Opalescent.

But, it could also refer to clear Blanc de Lait pieces which are sometimes found with highlights picked out with an amber stain.

In the 4 pictures:

First is a standard piece of clear opalescent Blanc de lait

Second is green tinted Blanc de Lait. This is found as often as clear but I believe that Sowerby made this type for a longer period than the clear.

Third is a pink tinted Blanc de lait. Only two items known to exist, both Gladstone bags, displayed in the Shipley Art Gallery, Geteshead. Referred to in Cottle as Rose Opalescent.

Forth is clear Blanc de Lait with an amber stain. These are quite rare, the stain always seems to be amber and is probably fired on as opposed to just painted. I do not have a piece, can anyone confirm this?


The catalogues are trade only. By the time of the 1882 catalogue I think Vitro Porcelain sales may have been lagging so Sowerby were trying to 'tempt' buyers with new 'fancy' glass products by adding Tortoiseshell, New Marble Glass, Aesthetic Green, Enamelled Opaque Glass and Stained Blanc de Lait etc etc. to their range of products.

The descriptor 'stained' may refer to the tint, green or pink as per Bernard, or it may refer to the applied stain. I still tend to agree with Bernard.

Mike
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

www.victorianpressedglass.com

Offline thewingedsphinx

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2022, 11:14:56 AM »
Mike, thanks very much for your time explaining all this info, and your fantastic website, attached is a frosted nursery rhyme pieces which I just got permission from “Retarkell” to use, I don’t think this colour is mentioned either in the catalogue, I can only refer to this as frosted.
By the way what’s your opinion on the Grython vases, personally I think they’re more swan like? Cheers Mike

Offline thewingedsphinx

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2022, 11:18:17 AM »
Here are the swan as discussed.

Offline MHT

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2022, 06:46:12 PM »
Mike, I saw that frosted nursery rhyme piece, very nice. Some time ago I had a clear Sowerby salt with frosted decoration, I knew it had been acid etched because it had a fingerprint etched into it.

I have a couple of the swan/gryphon vases, I usually use the name 'swan' vases. I always assumed they were made by Edward Moore because of the colours. I don't think Sowerby ever made items in caramel and a peppermint green, both of which I have seen used in these vases.
Years ago I met a dealer in the Portabello Road who had one of these vases. I asked if it was for sale and he said he was keeping it for a customer who collected them. The customer already had 26 of them in different colours.
A bit like the little baskets with 'nipples' that are fairly common, I must have seen them in about 20 different colours, again I assumed they were be made by Edward Moore.
Someone told me that because you sometimes see the swan vases with gold highlights that they must be Sowerby because Edward Moore did not have an enamelling shop. Not sure about this.
They may have originally been from a Sowerby mould, but it just does not 'look' like a Sowerby design to me. The Sowerby factory had a foundry and mould shop, perhaps Edward Moore commissioned them to make the mould.
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

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Offline flying free

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2022, 07:11:19 PM »
For viewers of the thread to show which items are under discussion, here are two of the 'Griffin/Gryphon/(Swan - but could referring to them as Swan vases cause confusion a) between these and the Sowerby vases and also b) they look like Swans, in chains, but have a clawed foot it seems to me? )' vases that are in the V&A collection.


https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O7150/vase-edward-moore/

The V&A has them as 'probably Edward Moore' but it seems there is no definitive id on this vase so far.


These are different to the Swan vases from Sowerby which appear on the Advertisement referred to earlier in the thread (see bottom photo here)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,72358.msg402660.html#msg402660


Lots of information on this 'Edward Moore'? Griffin / Gryphon vases on this previous thread here:

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46854.msg263492.html#msg263492

Found in museum in Brno one which is apparently 25cm tall.

Also someone on that thread apparently had them id'd as by Edward Moore however I couldn't see a reference source for that on the thread:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46854.msg276376.html#msg276376
Angela said -
Quote:
Yes you are right, I sent pictures to the curator of Glass - Angus McDonald, at South Shields Museum, he  has been writing a book about South Shields glass baron Edward Moore. He very kindly rang me and we had a long chat about this piece and he says it is by Moore. ;D




Offline thewingedsphinx

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2022, 09:51:32 PM »
Flying free, thanks for putting that together, the V&A also have a “St Louis” large malachite Sphinx figurine on their database attributed to Sowerby Gateshead! I did notify them that they may want to change their attribution, they replied, but still have it as Sowerby. No wonder people struggle with attributions.
Regards Mike

Offline flying free

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2022, 10:13:52 PM »
Flying free, thanks for putting that together, the V&A also have a “St Louis” large malachite Sphinx figurine on their database attributed to Sowerby Gateshead! I did notify them that they may want to change their attribution, they replied, but still have it as Sowerby. No wonder people struggle with attributions.
Regards Mike


I agree.  And for my part it feels uncomfortable questioning an identification from a museum. It's often difficult to know how much access to archived resource they might have. Resource we might not be privy to.  Therefore questioning something becomes more difficult.
Having said that, I think if they identify something they should put the resource on that identification, so at least it can be followed up.  I do sometimes adopt the 'well it's not verified by a stated resource therefore I can question' angle.

(and sometimes even if they do put a source of info, I still feel the need to question.  See Queen Victoria uranium glass bowl thread :) :)  )

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Sowerby Opalescent (blanc de lat) small “gathering apples” 1882
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2022, 04:09:05 PM »
The Chamber Street Museum in Edinburgh has bits by somebody who tends to be referred to as "a Scottish Glassmaker" which are labelled Monart and in their Monart section. I've told them. They are not interested.
Cheers, Sue M. (she/her)

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