Topic: A Rare Unfinished Cordial, As It Came From The Mold c.1860s, Show & Tell

[cagney]

  I believe "canary" relates to a particularly bright and vivd yellow color. A descriptive term. Analogous to a canary's brightly colored feathers. Still used over here c.1960s-70s  to describe a very bright and deep yellow automobile paint for American custom cars [hot rods]. Canary yellow, candy apple red, etc. Topaz purely a English term? Relating to the gemstone? Come to think of it, gold ruby is a descriptive term for a certain TYPE of red.
  The quote from Jill Trumbull's book documents an event in 1841. Not necessarily the first ?

  Pictured is a English glass circa about 1860. Pattern molded [dip mold] bowl and cut stem, very heavy for it's size and a darker shade of color than usually seen over here. Topaz?

[flying free]

  I believe...apple red, etc. Topaz purely a English term? Relating to the gemstone? Come to think of it, gold ruby is a descriptive term for a certain TYPE of red. ...
 

...  Pictured is a English glass circa about 1860. Pattern molded [dip mold] bowl and cut stem, very heavy for it's size and a darker shade of color than usually seen over here. Topaz?

No not purely an English term. From 1835 in the report from the Vienna Exhibition (source, Farbenglas I Neuwirth pp 255) 'The following color glasses were listed under the Harrach exhibits: "table candelabra in gold topaz composition;" ...'

And further in that paragraph:
"toilet bottles... of gold topaz composition, chrysoprase composition....;"


Spiegl also says from 1829:
From Walter Spiegl
Farbige Gläser

http://www.glas-forschung.info/pageone/pdf/farbglas.pdf

Scroll down to page 30 under the Heading 'Rosa Rubin und Topas-glas

'Mit dem Goldrubin verwandt ist das »Topasglas«, das man in Neuwelt schon 1829
herstellen konnte und bei Lötz und Schmidt in der Goldbrunnhütte etwa seit 1830.
Neben der Goldauflösung wurde der Schmelze eine kleine Menge Antimonoxid
beigegeben, das dem Glas eine rötlich gelbe Färbung verleiht.'

using google translate this says:

'Related to the gold ruby is the »topaz glass«, which was found in Neuwelt as early as 1829
could produce and at Lötz and Schmidt in the Goldbrunnhütte since about 1830.
In addition to dissolving the gold, a small amount of antimony oxide was added to the melt
added, which gives the glass a reddish-yellow color.'

I think it's a pale browny/reddy amber colour going by a Jiri Suhajek vase shown for Moser in The Legend of Bohemian Glass (Antonin Langhamer pp 273 plate 298:
it's this vase shown and described as having a 'topaz layer'
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vase-jiri-suhajek-moser-glassworks-hi-307770001

Spiegl describes how the 'topaz glass' was made as above.  I read that as,  in addition to the gold ruby recipe a small amount of antimony oxide was added to make the 'Topasglas'.

So it's curious how Pellatt seems to describe topaz glass as being made with uranium oxide. See also info hereon this point:

https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,70066.msg391983.html#msg391983




Your goblet is lovely btw. It's a little more green than I would have pictured in my mind's eye for topaz colour.  Do you know where it's from?  Is it a Powell goblet?

[cagney]

  Two other sources on topaz.
  1. From "An Illustrated Dictionary of Glass" Harold Newman, Thames and Hudson 1977. URANIUM: A metallic agent used in coloring glass, producing a fluorescent yellowish-green or greenish-yellow colour. When it is mixed with antimony, topaz and amber colours result.
  2. "Encarta World English Dictionary" TOPAZ: no.4 COLORS:" Yellowish brown color, a light brown color tinged with yellow"
  This definition seems to approximate Steubens version of topaz.

  The English glass is interesting in, the combination of pattern molding and cutting in the same piece. I am not aware of this nexus in American glassware in this period, possibly later in the 19th century. I cannot recall seeing any. The only place I have seen this nexus is in Jacksons book on Whitefriars page 21 fig. 49 a diamond moulded decanter c.1855 with a cut fluted neck. The word designation on the photo is just a reminder to myself of that fact. Attribution to a certain maker unknown.

[flying free]

It's really pretty especially with the mold pattern and the faceted stem and beautifully cut merese/knop. A really lovely piece and beautifully done.
I'm stumped.  I've never seen anything like it to be honest.

Thank you for the information on the topaz colour from Newman and Encarta.   Interesting. 

m

[flying free]

...
Also, the making of glass colours was/is difficult.  (see page 71 of the link below this para - Antonin Langhamer, The Legend of Bohemian Glass, where it is referred to as 'the secret' of making uranium glass ) so why would a glassmaker share their recipes with a competitor?  Isn't that a bit of an odd request? 

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Legend_of_Bohemian_Glass/UwLCa_h3hTEC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=uranium+glass+1839&pg=PA79&printsec=frontcover

See also page 79 for info on Harrach development of uranium glass:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Legend_of_Bohemian_Glass/UwLCa_h3hTEC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=uranium+glass+1839&pg=PA79&printsec=frontcover


 Food for thought on why there are no examples of this Ford Holyrood canary glass around or if there are, where are they?
I'm also still curious as to how the glass excise tax would have affected the making of expensive coloured glass in Britain in 1839:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_tax  ...

In relation to my bolded comment above, Page 63 of Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 describes an industry in trouble in the 1830s:

'At a time when the ownership of a glassworks was a perilous undertaking which could lead quickly to bankruptcy, most glass producers were intent on survival rather than producing publicity material which might have been saved for posterity'.

and

'...in 1830 when most Dudley works were already complaining of financial problems due to the Glass Excise, which seems to have eventually forced the closure of the most important factories'.


and on page 70:
'Throughout most of its life the Hawkes factory was hampered by the Glass Excise. Prices were increased in 1825 as a result of the changes in the way the tax was charged and in 1835 the evidence Hawkes gave to the Commission of Inquiry clearly outlined the effect of the tax:
'I was out of business for a short time, for three years; I gave it over to my brothers, and they were so disgusted with it that they retired.  I renewed the business with the hope that some alteration would take place, and I carry it on for one of my younger sons, to whom I thought I was doing an act of justice.'

From my reading of what CH has written, it appears Thomas Hawkes was the most important glassworks in Dudley(see page 63).
If this is what he is writing about the Tax Excise then I guess other factories must have been under similar pressures.
I think Hawkes closed in 1842 (see page 69 of the same book) where discussing a worker it says ' In 1842 his disappearance from the directories coincides with the closure of the Hawkes firm and...'

Does this indicate an industry that could in 1837 have used expensive oxides to produce a newly developed  colour glass?

[cagney]

  Very hard times over here for glassmakers for very different reasons. A general contraction in the economy beginning with the "panic of 1837". This seems to have lasted some years and then a gradual climb out of recession/depression.
  Color being all the rage then I would think to stay competitive they would have to produce colored glass and capitalize on the current fashion. Considering the large amounts of other ingredients in a glass formula, the coloring agents were I think a small measure. One formula for "canary" c.1880 is simply "Batch 200 lbs. Uranium 1 lbs. As mentioned earlier in this thread uranium oxide not difficult to get over here. Cost unknown.

[cagney]

  You may find this interesting.https://www.chataboutdg.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=2329 https://www.chataboutdg.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=2340
  Heisey's marigold color using uranium. Made for only 1 year c.1929 as it was a very unstable formula. Prone to crizzling and eventually flaking. At least two versions known. Probably ongoing experimentation  trying to stabilize the glass. Documentation that it had a tendency to "spit" when working with the hot glass. Discontinued c. 1930 given the problems. Heisey perfected a really nice even shade of yellow in lead glass without uranium in their"Sahara" color c. 1930.

[flying free]

Thank you Cagney.  I will have a read of that link.  Unfortunately it's not working for me.  It says site can't be reached.

In relation to that issue of crizzling uranium glass, the issue that Pellatt had written about and publicised in his book 1847 was that he'd sent out shipments of uranium glass and within three months it had crizzled and it all had to be replaced with the cost to Falcon Glassworks.  So he was talking about his own factory.  Unfortunately he doesn't give the date for when that had happened but prior to 1847 due to the date of the lectures and the book based on those lectures. 
I think also if I recall correctly he mentioned adjusting quantities dependent on how much ? (lead? maybe) in the batch.  From what I read I don't think it was as simple as ... make a batch, put some uranium in, and there you go. I presume from the info you've given above, that Heisey also found it difficult to make it work.

From the link   a few posts ago I gave on this thread to recent research by Jill Turnbull , it seems in May 1841 Holyrood made a huge batch of uranium glass and said it was good.  They may have had a recipe they knew worked with their batch.  I'm not a glass maker so I've no idea if that means it would work with any makers batch. There is no follow up comment on that recipe she discusses, so I do wonder if the outcome was successful longer term i.e. no crizzling.  If that was the case I wonder why it's thought to be years later before the first American uranium glass was made when Leighton had asked the question in 1839.  I'm thinking it's not as easy as the reply from John Ford made it out to be.


(I've been looking recently at French glass.  The shape of the Queen Victoria bowls and the everted rim reminds me a lot of the Saint Louis Medici vases for some reason:  http://lecoindesmerveilles.com/produit/vase-medicis-saint-louis/   , which led me to thinking about Baccarat.


m

[flying free]

Re being competitive.  I have read in Charles Hajdamach's British Glass that British glassmakers were making coloured glass in that pre 1851 period.

However  the Queen Victoria bowls were said to have been made for 1837 coronation.   I think the industry was hampered by the Excise tax so development of coloured glass I assume will have been hampered by that as well?  Also the reports from the Birmingham Exhibition in 1849 and the Great Exhibition in 1851 both remark on how great the colour was from the Bohemian glassmakers and to me the way they're written implied  British glass was 'getting there' but still not there on coloured glass comparatively.

See page 294 where the report on Glass starts in the middle of the centre column:

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_art_journal_London/65BCAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=art+journal+1849+uranium&pg=PA137&printsec=frontcover


 The impression I get is that the industry here in Britain could not compete with the coloured glass developed in France and that of Bohemia in the 1830s.  But I could be wrong. Certainly reports from the Vienna Exhibition discuss the incredibly wide range of colours on show from Bohemian makers.  And I've seen the range of coloured opalines from the 1810/20/30s in France and they're beautiful (see Baguiers et Verres a Boire, Leon Darnis)  I've not found anything similar here in either the V&A or the Broadfield House museum from that period of pre 1850 but perhaps they just don't exist any more?  That's also possible.

And I'm still wondering where all this uranium glass from Holyrood glassworks has gone.  Along with all the Apsley Pellatt uranium glass.


Art Journal 1849 report mentions Apsley Pellatt's recipe for Gold Topaz as 6 cwt. of batch with  3 lb of oxide of uranium
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_art_journal_London/65BCAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=art+journal+1849+uranium&pg=PA137&printsec=frontcover

I think experimentation will have been necessary.  And who knows whether those experiments were actually successful really?


m

[flying free]

Going back to your Topaz glass

I spotted this - similar mold type decoration device on the bowl.  Obviously not facet cut stem or honeycomb cut knop. (don't want to stick my neck out but when I saw your goblet my first thought on the faceted stem and knop was a glass c. 1850 by Saint Louis, in a book I have.  That said, I discounted that thought because of the colour as I don't know if they made that colour.  I'm going to dig out the book to see if there is some similarity)

https://ancientglass.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/english-green-wine-glass/

updated:  I've dug out the book Baguiers et Verre a Boire, Leon Darnis.
Page 109 shows a goblet with a faceted knop and it appears to be a molded patterned bowl.  It's clear glass with solely a green opaline knop.  The stem is not straight facet cut like yours but Saint Louis did do stems like that so those two things combined are probably what made me think of Saint Louis when I saw your glass.  Probably a complete red herring though as I've no idea if they ever made topaz coloured glass.