Topic: Fused sphere surface decoration query.

[flying free]

Saint-Louis

https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/308258-c1860-saint-louis-pair-of-opaline-glass?in=activity

(although have to say there is no reference source for that - but if right, I'm pleased the shape of the foot reminded me of Saint-Louis )

ooh look here:  your lucky find Ekimp!
https://www.proantic.com/en/display.php?id=461400

This blue version has also come up but no further details:
https://www.selency.nl/product/KUVS5JCY/saint-louis-vase-granada-in-crystal-opaline-1845-1865.html

reference source needed though?

m

[Ekimp]

Thanks both, that’s great M! I had better look after it

I wasn’t expecting something quite so soon…now I wish I’d looked harder Looks promising for Saint-Louis, presumably there’ll be a reference somewhere but that’s excellent, thanks very much.

I was sure it wasn’t moulded but did consider it as I bent a piece of wire to poke in the top so I could feel what the internal surface felt like. You can feel where the ribs are but under the balls it felt completely smooth, plus they looked so random. You are both right though - the bubbles are moulded - one of the panels on mine matches the pattern on the collectors weekly link. I thought it was a new technique

The pontil mark is very nicely finished, can’t see any marks on it with naked eye. It is also quite deep. The vase is 7 inches tall and just over 0.5kg.

Interesting that none of the others have gilding, I wonder if it was worn and then remove…I did think it might be better without.

[flying free]

I think I saw a reference to 1862-1870 ish catalogue but I can't find where I saw that and I couldn't find a catalogue either.  But it just caught my eye somewhere iirc so might be worth searching for?


I definitely wouldn't remove the gilding.  But that's me    It's well over 100 years old and having that gilding shows what the design would have looked like.  I should think most of the others will be missing theirs unless they did a plain version as well.

In my head I also keep in mind that in other cases there is the situation that sometimes molds were sold on to other makers.  It might be that the original version would have been say enamelled or gilded, but that the new owner/factory didn't do that.  I always think having as much original decoration as possible is a good thing
As an example, some of the early 1840s (?they might have been from the 1830s actually) molds from Saint-Louis were sold to IVIMA I think it was in Portugal.  They made the items in very different colours to the early colours made by Saint-Louis.

[flying free]

This is not the same but style/type along similar lines and gives a catalogue number and year 1870 for another molded vase.
I think a getting a good reference source is important.  And I don't know how helpful they are if you write to them.

https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/39285721-st-louis-antique-blue-opaline-vase-glass#gallery&gid=1&pid=19

[Ekimp]

Ok thanks - hopefully Saint Louis - I’ll leave it for a bit before trying to contact them incase I stumble across something

I looked on the cmog, they have several Saint Louis catalogues but mainly later and I didn’t notice anything similar, there are not many vases anyway.

Interesting what you say about the moulds, pleased mine still has gilding! I read on one topic how an item was considered to be a “wreck” due to worn gilding, which seemed a bit harsh. I’ll not remove the gilding but it’s a bit inconvenient not being able to handle it properly. It would be quite tactile otherwise

[flying free]

The owner of this site has the title very boldly stated that it's a Saint-Louis vase.  So hopefully the owner is correct fingers crossed.
https://www.proantic.com/en/display.php?id=461400

Gilding is difficult.  But I like to have my items out and about and not always stuck away in a cabinet.  Some are because they don't fit in with anything and I bought them because they're unusual/rare.  But others are on display because they look good as part of a group of other items so I use them.  Otherwise what's the point?  I do try not to touch them too much but they're part of my house so they get cleaned (occasionally!)
m

[Ekimp]

Did you see the bottle in a similar style from the same seller, that is Baccarat? https://www.proantic.com/en/1086209-rare-bottle-in-yellow-opaline-baccarat-pineapple-model-xixth-napoleon-iii-period.html

Looks like the book Les Opalines by Christine Vincendeau might be worth reading judging by the page the seller shows for the Baccarat piece.

You would think if they had a reference for Saint Louis they would mention it.

I’ve only got the two pieces with gilding that I’m bothered about so not too much of a problem, I’m more worried about cracking the screw lid on my other bit!

[Ekimp]

Found a reference

There is one here:
https://cristalstlouis.com/saint_louis_vase_grenade_perles_en_opaline_de_cristal_bleu_1845_1865_napoleoniii.html

Translating their description they say ‘This model can be found at the Saint-Louis Museum "La grande
Halle" in another colour.’

[flying free]

I did see that but have been trawling through the photos of the museum collection - there aren't that many available online - and couldn't see it.  And I'm always wary that they meant exactly the same model.  Or did they mean they thought it looked similar.  Mind you there's a lot of glass there:
https://www.saint-louis.com/en/edito_article_museum

I also saw the yellow Baccarat and the Les Opalines reference - but I think if yours had been in the book the seller would have referenced it.  So assume it isn't.

You could try contacting Saint-Louis.  I don't know if you'd get a response ... but you might?

m

[Ekimp]

Ah, yes. Hopefully if there is one in the museum it won’t be too difficult for them to check, so hopefully they might respond. Thanks for looking.