Topic: Carafe ID Whitefriars or Stuart?

[glassobsessed]

There are a few exceptions when it comes to Whitefriars marking stuff, the short lived Studio Range can be found engraved on the base (Whitefriars/pattern number/date) and I have a Whitefriars vase at present with an engraved RD number. It is the purple version of this vase on ebay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364137720292

John

[Paul S.]

well, I'm blowed  -  shows I need to get out more often - thanks John.      Looks to be pattern No. 916 and likely made between 1910 and 1930, though could be a year or two earlier.     John, grateful if you will advise the Rd. No. - would be interesting to see the original factory drawing at Kew.       Jackson says  .... ".... probably designed between 1903 and 1910  .........  produced until early 1930s  .........".
I've looked in both the Blue Book and Thompson from c. 1900 and 1910, but not aware of seeing the name Whitefriars.             Could be for several reasons, the most likely being that it's hiding under CLASS IV rather than CLASS III which is the usual place for glass  -  CLASS IV is usually avoided by researchers as it's wood (I forget), but whatever, it's something other than glass. 

[Keith Mick]

Hi John
Is the vase just engraved with the Rd. No and nothing else, no name or anything? I would not have recognized that as a Whitefriars piece if I came across it out and about. Shows how easily we can overlook something good!
I know W F used stickers but I'm not sure when that practice began.
Thanks for the info
Cheers
Keith

[Paul S.]

Keith - appears to be the piece on page 126 top right, in Jackson.

[Keith Mick]

Hi Paul
Will take a look, it doesn't seem familiar to me but I suppose we can't remember them all. You mentioned Woodchester Pattern, I used to have some nice glasses probably for whiskey.  I've also got some Stratford ring glasses somewhere around here with a Stratford jug which has a cut pattern from the 1927 Stuart catalogue. I do think Stuart are a bit underrated,  they made some really nice glass.
Keith

[glassobsessed]

From memory the purple vase is engraved "Rd 543290" but I will check tomorrow and get some photos of it. It just goes to show Paul that every 'rule' has an exception somewhere down the line...

A couple of images of the Peter Wheeler designed vase for reference below. I have had a few items from the later New Studio Range over the years and they were unsigned.

Examples of both here:
https://whitefriars-glass.com/studio-range.php

[Paul S.]

too true John  -  sincere thanks for posting the Reg. No.             It should occur in June 1909, but as I suggested yesterday it's missing from the Blue Book and though I can't be certain, the reason is likely to be that it's in CLASS IV  -  it seems that registrants would sometimes do this deliberately to hide a design.      I will need to visit Kew to confirm my CLASS IV assumption and take a snap of the factory drawing.                   thanks again.

[glassobsessed]

Started a new topic for the vase with Rd number, sorry, have been clogging this one up a bit:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,73541.0.html

[Keith Mick]

Quite by chance I came across a snippet of info related to this thread. Reading through the Roger Dodsworth edited "British Glass between the wars" on page 30 there's a paragraph about some of the 19th Century Stuart designs that were still being produced in the 1920s and 30s. This piece written by Christine Colledge state's " 'Leather' bottles identical to those made in 1881 were entered into the pattern book in 1929".
So if I'm reading this right Stuart who took over the Redhouse site in 1881 from Phillip Pargeter either continued Pargeter's production of these 'Leather' bottles or started their own production that year and then restarted production of them some time in the late 1920s. I suspect that at least some of the Whitefriars examples out there may be miss attributed.
It seems the Stuart version was around longer than I believed.
Cheers
Keith