Topic: Help With ID for Pair of Hanau Silver Mounted Bohemian Specimen Vases Please

[Ekimp]

I usually blame auto correct for spelling mistakes…I think it screws up my grammar too.

I understand what you are saying about the hallmarks, but they are over 100 years old and on very thin sheet. Another thing to consider is why would someone bother putting fake marks on such a small piece of silver - would doing so add value?

Not trying to change minds, but I think the maker of the silver is probably David Loebl, Schindler & Co. Looking at other silver rims of theirs, I believe it fits with what can be seen of the remaining makers mark.

There is some information on the company in the link below. It says they imported mainly Rindskopf and Kralik. The reason given for attaching silver rims is so that the vases could be sold in jewellers rather than just home wear stores.

https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/114916-rindskopf-green-and-yellow-marbled-vase

[APEXantiques]

I don't use auto-spell, especially not on these forums, for some reason it ends up typing over already typed text when I go back and edit already typed text!!
 I don't for a moment think the hallmarks are forgeries, as the title of the thread says, I think they may be Hanau Pseudo Marks (see links earlier in the thread). It was very common for the Hanau Silversmiths to imitate English hallmarks very closely but not so closely as to infringe. One other point to note is that the marks are also out of order. (Not unheard of but usually these kinds of wares were well marked).
I'm actually surprised you used that mark as an example. That is clearly an English Hallmark...same shaped punches, clear devices (lion, leopard etc), correct order and the makers mark only resembles the one on the vases here in that both aren't easily read in the pictures supplied. That hallmark has everything this mark is missing. Please, take a look at them side by side.

[Ekimp]

At the end of my last post I meant “homeware”. I wasn’t using that hallmark or makers mark on that particular vase as an example to compare with yours but included the link for the description of the company. As I said, I looked at other examples of rims from David Loebl that are easy to find using Google if people are interested.

An additional comment on the hallmarking system is that the stamps were made by hand so weren’t all identical. For example, if people compare the clear but worn hallmarks for London 1904 on the links below, they can see they are different. The proportions of the shields, the size of the device inside the shield compared to the shields, the position of the device inside the shields, the date letter i (and the shields) are different, the shape of the lion’s legs etc. This is just on examples that I came across without much searching.

https://bassetlawsilverandantiques.com/products/edwardian-silver-coffee-pot-for-lieutenant-c-a-fremantle-royal-navy-london-1904-page-keen-page-18-troy-ounces

https://www.silver-collector.com/t/makers-mark-help-please-1904-london-candlesticks/15197

Then these stamps are applied by hand to a piece of thin metal that isn’t flat. That metal might then be worked by the silver smith, and in this case, fitted to a vase. It is then subject to 100 plus years of abuse and polishing. I don’t think it’s surprising that the marks can look different to a documented standard, but that’s just my opinion.

[APEXantiques]

I've spent more than enough time defending the obvious.
All I can say is that I'm glad you aren't responsible for authenticating the antiques at my shop!!

[chopin-liszt]

This forum is for glass.
Not for the incredibly complex vagaries of hallmarks on metalwork, which can often be added to glass long after it was made and in a completely different place.
It's not really anything that is of any use or interest to us.
And when silver gets stuck onto bits of glass, you start getting silver collectors interested in the thing instead of the glass and it can put prices out of our reach.
It's a completely different category. And not one we specialise in, just some of us know a little bit around the edges.
No one person can be a specialist in everything.

[NevB]

Well said chopin-liszt, I'm with Ekimp on this one.

[Ekimp]

Thanks Nev, good to know it’s not just me.

Silver mounts can be useful for dating and occasionally I’ve come across bits in the charity shops. I wouldn’t splash out on the fancy stuff, but for me that goes for plain glass too I don’t think there’s anything complicated about English hallmarks, especially later ones.

[APEXantiques]

I would like to apologise to all involved in this post....I was wrong.

After a few days of looking at them in various lights and under the microscope of your collective opinions, I saw exactly what you had all been saying from the start.
Thin silver = crappy hallmarks!

Apologies once again

[chopin-liszt]

No worries, I think we can empathise with your frustration. 

[APEXantiques]

Many thanks for your understanding