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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Resolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: rocco on September 24, 2011, 02:19:33 PM
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Bought this "interesting" piece today, diameter 23 cm, height 16 cm, base is ground but not polished.
There are 6 indentations which build internal strips connecting top and bottom (sorry, I am not able to describe this technically in English, not even in German I guess).
Ideas on maker, date,...? (It was pretty dirty, so it may have been around a while; had to clean off even mice droppings :))
And I am wondering what it is meant for: is it merely an object, or a bowl, a lampshade,...? (a small bulb would fit in the opening, but as the base is not a circle I am wondering what the fixture would have looked like, then).
The technique reminds of some Pavel Hlava pieces (not the quality, I am afraid).
Any input greatly appreciated!
Michael
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Hi Michael,
A similar object can be found on Jindrich's website, in the "Questions -- opened issues" (http://www.cs-sklo.c z/ceskoslovenskesklo/8-ZEPTEJTE-SE-QUESTIONS/14-Otevrene-Opened-issues/0/0/0/discussion-all/444#bott444)section. It seems not much is known about it at the moment.
If I may ask, what's not so right with the quality? Is it only the fact that the base isn't polished?
I like the piece... there is something oddly fascinating and entertaining about it. Good find, whatever it may be. :)
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;D Looks like a squashed doughnut variation of a "Witches' ball"!
I think the insidey strands are produced by sticking wet rods through the glass when still molten.
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Thanks Anik and Sue!
The piece on Jindrich's site looks closely related to mine -- well spotted, Anik! :hiclp:
Unfortunately not much info in the text (according to Google translator), somebody seems to have seen a similar item on ebay with "MK 66" signature, so Miloslav Klinger, Marian Karel and Marta Kerhartová are mentioned...
So could it be Czech?
When I talked about the quality I meant the quality of the glass -- several air bubbles and inclusions.
Michael
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This object has been on the board before too, although I wouldn't have the faintest idea of how to search for it!
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So could it be Czech?
I wish I knew. :-\ Perhaps Lednicke Rovne (Slovakia) is a possibility?
By the way, I think I gave a broken link above. Just in case, here (http://www.cs-sklo.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo/8-ZEPTEJTE-SE-QUESTIONS/14-Otevrene-Opened-issues) is a link to the object in Jindrich's "Questions" section.
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Student piece seems likely and possibly based on another artists's work. Any competent glassmaker would not have made such a hash of the push-ins. The technique is commonly used in paperweights and is unusual in a glass object but the similarity in shape to paperweight might point to that as the original source of inspiration.
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Any competent glassmaker would not have made such a hash of the push-ins.
That's exactly what I enjoy about that GMB and glass collecting world -- our perception and understanding of what we see can differ diametrically, depending on experience, knowledge, taste... Personally, I appreciate the internal 'mess'. It gives the piece personality. :)
I just wanted to add that this is the third amber-coloured object I've seen. Besides Michael's and the one on Jindra's site, there was one back in April on Allegro.
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This object has been on the board before too, although I wouldn't have the faintest idea of how to search for it!
I faintly recall someone being adamant that they were made by Holmegaard - and wouldn't be told otherwise - because they'd had other ones in Holmegaard-type colours. I tried searching, but to no avail. I don't think anything useful came from the thread other than establishing that they're not Holmegaard.
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Oh great -- it is Holmegaard then? ;D (just joking)
Thanks all for your contributions!
If this is the third to appear in a short amount of time I wouldn't think it is a student piece...
And if all are without base or light fixture, it seems to be an object.
If Jindrich doesn't recognize it at once, I am not so sure about it being Czech...
Obviously I liked the internal "mess", too :)
Michael
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If this is the third to appear in a short amount of time I wouldn't think it is a student piece...
Why not?
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Just a guess, Frank! :)
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If this is the third to appear in a short amount of time I wouldn't think it is a student piece...
In all honesty, I was thinking the same... what are the chances of three+ similar sloppy innards student pieces appearing in three different countries? :usd:
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eBay
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Ask a stupid question... ::)
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Well, at least my piece hasn't come via ebay, but from the Viennese fleamarket as usual...
Judging from the amounts of dirt and mouse droppings, it has spent some time in an attic or cellar.
But Frank may still be right with his student's piece assumption. (I hope he is wrong :), because it would be quite impossible to find out more about these objects then)
Michael
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Just to be clear, Student's can produce high quality, they can also make a LOT of pieces... perhaps for an installation. With all the glass schools around that is a lot of glass floating around the world. Where a student would have the greatest difficulty is in repeatability... that takes years of practise. Particularly with this type of technique that requires dexterity and good control. So finding inconsistencies with several similar pieces might suggest student.
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Thanks, Frank!
As I obviously don't know much about glass school or student's pieces -- would their output be usually signed?
Michael
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As I obviously don't know much about glass school or student's pieces -- would their output be usually signed?
Michael
I would say not, unless they were on some kind of ego trip! When I was at art school, I never signed the rubbish I produced !
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Exhibition pieces are likely to be signed these days but not if they made dozens or hundreds of pieces for an installation. The exhibition put on by students during conference at ECA was quite remarkable in general with some really outstanding pieces.
I am fairly certain there are some graduation pieces on Scotland's Glass too.
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Perhaps it was inspired by something like this: https://picasaweb.google.com/Johnmj100/ScandinavianGlass#5433585423581512210
Very clever those Iittala glassblowers!
John
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That one is marvellous, but yours looks more likely inspired by paperweights.
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I'm with Frank, except that it might not be a student. I've seen a few pieces recently with not very well done push-ins (see attached photo of one I bought just for interest). The technique does make the piece look different, without being very difficult or time-consuming.
David
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Thanks for your input, guys!
Apart from those internal glass bridges, I do not see much similarity to David’s glass ball; I know dimensions are difficult to realize on pics, but my object seems a lot bigger and more massive (diameter 23 cm, and surely weighs more than 1 kilogramm).
To me it does have a rather convincing 1970s look, perhaps mimicing the output of Czech glass artists at that time?
If you look through the 1970s exhibition catalogues on Jindrich’s site, there are several items in a vaguely similar style, by several designers:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/BohmischesGlasDerGegenwart1973?authkey=Gv1sRgCOaLqLbT7aDFqwE# (http://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/BohmischesGlasDerGegenwart1973?authkey=Gv1sRgCOaLqLbT7aDFqwE#)
http://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/SoucasneSklo?authkey=Gv1sRgCLmUxeKE4dy0swE# (http://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/SoucasneSklo?authkey=Gv1sRgCLmUxeKE4dy0swE#)
http://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/SKLOVGALERIICHDILA1977?authkey=Gv1sRgCKW4zLymqdCnbg# (http://picasaweb.google.com/Jindra8526/SKLOVGALERIICHDILA1977?authkey=Gv1sRgCKW4zLymqdCnbg#)
In one of my 1970s design books I have also seen something similar from Japan (the other big Studio glass country); maybe another possibility?
Anyway, I like it, and it catches quite some interest here due to its „arty“, studio-glass appearance :D
Michael
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Michael:
I wasn't suggesting that my made in Canada piece was by the same maker as your piece. I'm very confident they weren't, in fact. But they are both roughly spherical with push-ins. So we have the same technique in John's Sarpaneva piece, your piece, my piece, some Czech and Japanese pieces you've found, which points to the fact that it's not an unusual technique and has been used widely used. I think your suggestion that it's 1970's studio glass is a good one. I wouldn't trade it for a Skrdlovice piece, though.
David
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Technique is very old although not this use.
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Thanks, guys!
David, I guess I hadn’t quite understood what you were intending to show with the pic of your glass object – thanks for making that clear.
Anyway, it is an interesting thread, even if we haven’t found out much more about this particular piece.
I think I will have to be content with a “studio-glass-type-object-of-unknown-origin”-ID ;D
Michael
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Solved :D
According to a lovely guy who posted the ID in my picasa gallery link (https://plus.google.com/app/basic/photos/107330317087089352634/album/5599996919198755121/5655946782353926562?cbp=1rhlm3dsulqyo&authkey&sview=20&cid=5&soc-app=115&soc-platform=1&spath=/app/basic/photos/107330317087089352634/album/5599996919198755121&sparm=cbp%3D72jtumzgn3ah%26authkey%26sview%3D20%26cid%3D5%26soc-app%3D115%26soc-platform%3D1%26pgpnum%3D6%26spath%3D/app/basic/photos%26sparm%3Dcbp%253D72jtumzgn3ah%2526authkey%2526sview%253D20%2526cid%253D5%2526soc-app%253D115%2526soc-platform%253D1%2526pv%253Dhi%2526pgpnum%253D1), it was
"...made in serbian glass factory from the town Prokuplje. Glasswork is closed about 2002.
Designer is probably Dragan Drobnjak"
Great info! Yugoslavian glass is another area about which not much seems to be known...
Michael
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Brilliant result, just need to find out a bit more detail now. Can only find 2 glassworks in Serbia in other cities early 20th century.
Might help http://zbirka-stakla.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Srbija%20%28Serbia%29
Glass = стакло = staklo
glassworks = стаклара = staklara
There were two glassworks. Crystal glassworks that made flat glass and glassworks "October 9", which rules the various glass products, and among other things, unique hand-blown glass. Both are ruined and physically wiped off the face of the earth during the bankruptcy proceedings.
Company that went bust was Fiaz.
Google images Staklara "9. oktobar" comes up with some glass images, note Serbische was a different company formed in 1907
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so what about Paracin?
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Serbische/Serbian glass factory (Srpska Fabrika Stakla) was the one at Paracin. still in business I think. http://www.srpskafabrikastakla.com/en/about-us/history/ that adds Hrastnik, Zagreb. Hartmann shows its mark COC SFS
October 9 was closed in 2002, cannot find when it started though. Other one I found was Janhowits (Naz) & Co, sur Bilitza. which was older than SFS.
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Seems to be lots of pressed glass to be discovered there :)
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Possible designer mentioned above https://www.kupindo.com/Umetnost/25555529_Dragan-Drobnjak-Izlozba-Stakla-Juni-1971
This piece in sale http://www.limundo.com/kupovina/Kolekcionarstvo/Antikviteti/Figure/stara-skulptura-u-staklu-rad-Dragana-Drobnjaka/38845585
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Linking factory and designer:
The contemporary glass in Serbia formed a small circle of artists related to the glass factory. The origins and development of modern design in Serbia, in mid 60-ies of XX century, coincides with the work of Veselka Zoric, Alexander Portnoy and Dimitri Gvozdenovic (SFS Paracin), Zoran Prvanović (RIN Zajecar) and Dragan Drobnjak ('9 October' Prokuplje). On the one hand, their activity contributed to raising the level of production and, on the other hand, the organization of production he felt the lack of prudential authentic content.
http://www.mpu.rs/srpski/permanent/savremena/savremena.html
Bibliography sets active period circa 1971-1987
http://www.worldcat.org/wcidentities/viaf-125078754
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Thank you very much Frank for doing more research!
And sorry for the delayed reply, I was away...
With all those links you found (the piece on the Serbian auction website even has a label) the ID seems solid; and the time frame would fit nicely as well, 1970s/80s.
Michael
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Interesting, did post this on the board sometime ago, had the piece at least 10 years and thought it may have been a lamp shade of sorts, ??? ::)
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Keith, I had the exact same idea that it probably was a lamp shade -- but obviously it isn't ;D
Michael
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I am "lovely guy who posted the ID" of this piece of glass. Hi everyone...
I have full confirmation that this piece of glass designed by Dragan Drobnjak, somewhere in the period 1970-1986.
Dragan Drobnjak is born 1941, and completed the school for sculptors. He was leading designer of the factory "9. October" from Prokuplje (Serbia) beetween 1969-1991.
Factory in Prokuplje was founded by Serbian glass factory in 1962, as their outpost. Later glassworks became independent and functioned to bankruptcy 2003.
During the 19th and 20th century in Serbia worked 10 glassworks.
if anyone has any questions I will gladly answer.
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I forgot to add some other informations. The name of this piece of glass is "Ikebana". Pattern number is 605. for height of 30 cm and 606. for height of 20 cm.
It was used to decorate the flowers, but also as lamp shade.
I also forgot to sign it. My name is Dejan.
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Thank you Dejan. UK 20th century design specialist Mark Hill has just added some interesting information about this designer to his website blog, http://markhillpublishing.com/category/blog/
Robert (bOBA)
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I'm sorry to say but Mark is not right about the attribution. I will try to contact him in order to correct his article.
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No problem Dejan, good luck,
Robert (bOBA)
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Thanks again for identifying this piece, Dejan!
I just read the attribution on Mark Hill's blog, and wanted to contact him and link him to this thread; but much better if you do that.
Michael
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To substantiate my claims I attached photo from the Prokuplje catalog (1986).
For now there is no response from the Mark Hill.
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Thanks Dejan, Mark is a very busy guy with several jobs, so it may take time for him to get back to you but I am sure he will be interested to discuss this.
We all like to be accurate and it may be that your information is solid. Mark is a good historian, he was careful to say in his article that he was speculating, saying "I think" in his article, not "certain". I think he will reply to you when he can, he sometimes posts here himself too, I think your information may persuade us all, thank you
thanks Michael as well,
Robert (bOBA)
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Just checked my record book ( sad I know ) and I bought my piece in July 1996 for the grand total of 3 !
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I have compiled a brief biography of the designer Dragan Drobnjak and I put on my new website. On this link you can see pictures a few of his designs. Such as the free-blown and formed object from the International symposium in Novy Bor 1982. The text was in Serbian but there is a possibility of the English translation through a translator.
https://sites.google.com/site/zbirkastaklavorgic/6-clanci-articles/dragan-drobnjak
Also if someone is interested on my site can find my research work about Rudolf Schrotter.
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I just spoke on the phone with the designer Drobnjak. I received information from him when he designed "strange object" Ikebana. He said that he could not exactly remember, but let's say in 1975 or in 1976. Then they made the first pieces but serial production has started somewhat later. Also told me that they are manufactured in serial production only in three colors (colorless, green-smoke and bright amber). By order and for the exhibitions Prokuplje glassworks made a special pieces with specific patina.
I also got from Drobnjak and a host of other information. He came on exhibitions and symposia across Europe (France, Russia, Czechoslovakia...). Everywhere he stole attention,because he came from glassworks for which no one has ever heard. Five times he was in the Novy Bor and there he received a special award. He is no longer engaged in designing glass but still works sculptures of bronze and is very active.
I'm sorry that Mark is not interested in this topic, but the two times I've tried to contact him.
I think we have now rounded out the story on this subject.
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Hello Dejan,
I am sorry I hadn't come across this revived thread before, and thank you, Robert (boBa), for notiyfing me about it.
This is fascinating and a mystery truly solved - finally. My suspicion has always been that they are Eastern European, but certainly not by Pavel Hlava. I based my attribution on the similarity of elements of this design to many of Tomaszewski's sculptures that I found in a monograph book on him, as my blog post says. As my blog post also says, and as Robert kindly points out, I didn't make a definitive attribution, I just said that I thought that they may be by Tomaszewski, based on these images, and asked for more information or other attributions.
I would really like to update my post as I dislike incorrect information on there, or being 'out there'. Sadly, I have not received any of your communications, otherwise I would have responded to them! Perhaps you could email me at books@markhillpublishing.com with any images and full information, and I will update my blog, crediting you as the source? I hope your email gets through this time... Sadly I don't look on here very often, especially as I am in the middle of revising and expanding my book on 1950s-70s Czech glass right now.
Our world is full of new and revised attributions, especially in new and cutting-edge areas such as these, and it's great to be able to react to them as the truth is uncovered definitively. Lots of people criticise others when these sorts of things happen, which is both unfair and incorrect in my opinion. It's not just these new areas that are affected in such a way - the attribution of some 18thC British porcelain to certain factories is often in a state of flux, or finally changed from one to another, as new shards are uncovered at dig sites at a factory's location - despite it having been collected and 'understood' for over a century.
Great stuff!
Many thanks,
Mark
www.markhill.net