Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: tabo1961 on February 01, 2014, 01:36:31 AM
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I have a glass with silver overlay ewer. I think it is Art Nouveau but not sure. It has an unusual hallmark. An elongated S and I. The S looks like an SS. the S is made up of three line s's and the I is made up of three lll. It is about 9 inches tall. the spout, handle, top decoration of Freesia flowers and the base appear to be sterling, but there is no sterling mark. It polishes very easily like sterling. The base is of blown glass which is iridescent ambers, tans and greens with many air bubbles in it. I have searched for the mark in the silver encyclopedia to no avail. Unlike most Art Nouveau silver overlay this piece has a strong 3D effect of the Freesia's. not just a flat design. Any help would be appreciated.
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hello and welcome to the GMB :) Do appreciate that you have gone to some lengths to provide a worded description, but think it necessary for you to also supply some pix to help members to try and assist. If possible a picture of the mark would also be helpful - although marks are often small, these can be photographed and the image enlarged successfully, by placing a lens/loup between the camera and the piece of glass - obviously moving both to get the optimum sharp focus.
We have many contributors from the Continent of Europe, and I might suggest that drawing parallels with specific military symbols and references to their origins might be seen as inappropriate, particularly by Continental members. I very much hope you won't mis-understand my comments, but I'm aware that similar matters have caused problems before.
Look forward to seeing your pix. :)
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While the marks may be relevant to the silver, sadly they are not neccessarily related to the glass part of it, either by date or by maker.
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thanks - I should have pointed that out. :)
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Team-work, Paul. :-*
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Thank you all. I now have pictures.
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Thank you all. I now have pictures. Here is pic 1.
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Don't forget that the silver may be SI (as shown) or equally IS when you are trying to research it. Does the silver part have any other hallmarks discretely hidden that you have missed? That would be significant.
http://www.925-1000.com/enyc_Overview.html gives a huge range of hallmarks - maybe one will lead you to the maker of the silvered part.
Ross
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yes, thanks for the extra pix. Looking at the underside of the foot, am I right in thinking there doesn't appear to be a typical 'ring' of wear that might be expected on the foot of something that you're suggesting is possibly over 100 years old. I'd have thought that wear in that area would have been more noticeable.
Appreciate that it's asking a possibly obvious question, but can you confirm that when using a silver polish, this does then produce a black mark on the cloth. :)
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Hi, Yes the silver was completely black when I got it. It polished up fairly well. You can still see how black the silver is inside the flowers and along the edges of the curls, but I'm not even sure it is nouveau. It has a nouveau feel to me but the hallmark is more deco/modern and the silver is much more pronounced in having the 3D effect than most nouveau I've seen. Also the glass itself is not typical of nouveau, at least not the nouveau I've been exposed to. It is more like the glass used in stained glass. Mottled colors in greens, ambers, oranges and tans. It has a light iridescent sheen to it that gives off blue hues in the sunlight and the glass is filled with air bubbles of different sizes, not uniform sized bubbles. It is also very light. Thank you for your help!
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I got out my magnifying glass and went over the entire piece again. I can find no other marks or stamps of any kind.
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The glass itself looks as if it might be that lovely stuff using silver nitrate by Tadeusz Wrésniak or the later comission stuff by Hortensja?
Possibly even the really fabby earlier stuff. I can't track down the correct thread where it was all being discussed - and it came up recently too. :-[
Examples here.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,22637.new.html#new
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While the marks may be relevant to the silver, sadly they are not neccessarily related to the glass part of it, either by date or by maker.While the marks may be relevant to the silver, sadly they are not neccessarily related to the glass part of it, either by date or by maker.
But it may help with the country of origin if you are lucky.
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see below for link
is this the topic ?
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I don't know. ???
When I click on your link I get a big notice telling me that Glassmessages is an untrusted site - and gives me the option only to "Get me out of here!"
But I got round it. I know I can trust you lot, can't I?
That's the one, Mike. Thanks. :-*
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http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,49549.msg279566.html#msg279566
ohh you've done it :D....err the above one should work better I think .....don't know what went wrong :-there :-\
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I sent pics of the ewer to the "Just Answer" antiques expert. Unfortunately they could not indentify the ewer either. They think it is either Finnish or Norwegian, but notr sure of that either. This just makes the quest more interesting. Hope one of you recognise it!
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I had wondered WMF as a possibility.
I know they did do a lot of Nouveau metalwork, and the glass is not desperately un-WMF-like.
But I'm no WMF expert, and I would have thought if it were a serious contender, others might have mentioned WMF before me. :-\
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Forgot to mention that if the metalwork is extremely well defined it might be pewter since it seems to cast really well. If it were silver I would expect markings even if it is quality plate.
Ross
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hi Ross - in view of the op's comments in reply No. 9 - it would seem to be silver rather than pewter. From experience when cleaning silver, the colour produced is most definitely black - whereas pewter doesn't give the same effect (I've just tried it).
From my limited knowledge of silver/plate, I thought that most of Europe included marks/Nos. of some description on silver - so in the complete absence of any marks might this indicate the Far East??
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It is not devoid of marks, Paul, there is a strange, angular "SS" one. It's shown in the pics. :)
But I do agree with you about the blackened cloth.
I just use the blackened thumb! :-[
If you rub tarnished silver with your fingerpad, the acid in them will remove the black silver oxide. Handy ( :P ) when you are out and about and don't have your polishing cloths with you.
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ooopps - sorry forgot the S's - thanks for the reminder Sue. :)
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Got some new info on the ewer. I contacted the Royal Albert Museum and the graciously researched the marks. They could not indentify the silver marks but believe it is either French or Belgian. They think it is late 19th to early 20th century. Still hoping that someone can find the clue! Thanks, Todd
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Lots of detail pics might help.
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the potential sources seem to be increasing :).........we've had Finnish and Norwegian, and now we have suggestions of French or Belgian.
Stylistically, there are approximately similar designs in the Dorothy Bosomworth (States produced) version of Silber & Fleming, so the date guide of late Victorian is going to be rather obvious, assuming not a modern copy. I'd also wondered if the marks might have appeared more worn if this was, say, 120 years or more old. From what little I've seen, hallmarks etc. often look more feint on antique silver/plated wares due to cleaning/rubbing.
If you are out collecting and do use the finger pad to assess whether silver is present, do remember not to use that digit for eating from your bag of sweets - silver oxide I believe is quite toxic. ;)
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It might be helpful to have clearer closer pictures of the glass.
I think Sue's suggestion is worth looking into - it was what occurred to me when I saw it but couldn't remember the makers name.
m
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There is something similar going on here . There are no marks on either the candlesticks or the chalice or it might be another candlestick (which is damaged) . It might be that mine are all made of glass or there may be a combination of very thin metal plus glass. Bought at a car boot sale and the seller said they were all bought in New York. Apologies if this is a red herring ;) Cheers, Mike.
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More pics....
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Metal is much cruder on these two than the ewer.