Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: rocco on April 18, 2012, 04:09:34 PM
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This lamp base has some features of WMF Ikora, but others that don't fit...
Mottled opaque orange-brown and green glass, with a netty pattern of yellow translucent glass, thickly cased in clear (sorry, difficult to discribe and to photograph as well).
Stands appr. 23 cm high, shiny indented base, moulded I think, top ground for the light fitting and not polished.
The fitting seems to be original (at least the lower part in chrome and bakelite, which fits perfectly), while the brass top may be a replacement...
Any idea of maker and age?
The closest I could find were the WMF lamp bases here on the glaskilan site (http://www.glaskilian.de/WMF.579.0.html).
Thanks!
Michael
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And one more pic with a ligh source in it...
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Close up the decor look like the one in this link as a 'base decor' however the one in the link does not have the crackle effect - the patches of colour on it are different as well ;D but if you look at the very close up shot, the base decor under the crackle looks very similar to yours.
http://donzella.com/itemdetails.php?id=571705
m
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I´d say it is an Ikora - a rather unusual coloured one and I´m perhaps only 85% sure,
but then again... They pop up in such unusual colourways now and then and the main
characteristics are there. Just a bit more powders than usual. It´s a pity the Ikora book on
lamps never got published.
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Thanks a lot guys!
When I bought it I was convinced it was Ikora, but comparing it to pics on the net I became rather uncertain due to the fitting, the lack of Silver Chloride, and the base finish (shouldn't there be a round polished pontil mark?).
The net pattern looks quite distinctive, though...
So quite happy that I was possibly not totally off the track :)
Are there any other makers for this style of lamp?
And would you date it to the 1930s, or rather later?
Michael
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Since the item was mould-blown and the top has not been hot-shaped afterwards there wasn´t the need
to transfer it to a pontil - therefore no ground out pontil mark.
Concerning the base finish of 30´s / 40´s WMF pieces like Ikora and Perlora there doesn´t seem to be such
a thing like a standard. From the pieces I´ve handled I can say they are either unfinished or have a ground
out pontil mark, or a base rim and a roughly ground out pontil mark or large ground out pontil mark and a
small base rim or a completely ground base or.... ;D
I´d guess your lampbase is rather pre 1945 because of the colours. The book on Ikora glass indicates
that the post-war production was much more restricted concerning the use of different colours and powders.
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can I ask a question though - from the lamps I have seen online, the wire seems to come from the top fixing (not that that would mean it is or it isn't a particular make though). But does yours have a hole in the base for the wire? I was just wondering about that.
The only other maker I thought it could possibly be, might be Kralik but I have no references for lamps - I've never seen one, though they probably made some. I've had a hunt through two sites that have many Kralik pieces though and couldn't see that decor.
m
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Thanks Dirk and m!
Your help is highly appreciated :)
So the base finish doesn't mean much in this case, good to know (as I have never handled any Ikora piece I was uncertain).
m, you're right that mine has got a hole at the side for the wire (pic attached). I think there is some sort of cap missing which would cover it a little, though.
Another possibility is that the lamp has been rewired, and the hole was drilled then, as there is a hole in the metal fixture beside the two switches which is useless (other than for air circulation?)
Searching the web I found this lamp (http://katalog.auktionshaus-wendl.com/de/cmd/d/o/119.63-2042/auk/63/p/1/) which IMHO looks remarkably similar to mine regarding shape, particularly the foot, technique and fitting. They claim it to be by WMF and don't mention Ikora; but I am not sure if they just attribute it, or if it is marked in some way.
Added another detail pic of the decor against the light, showing the quite complex technique a little better. (btw, the pic is not blurry -- the decor is ;D)
Regarding Kralik -- there is not much information about Kralik from the 1930s to be found, so no idea if they may have produced similar things then...
Michael
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That decor looks the same as yours or incredibly close. I think maybe someone rewired yours at some point as you say and put the hole lower down for safety maybe.
I wonder if your metalwork is marked in anyway? have you checked all the fittings?
m
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http://www.1001pc.co.uk/viewitem/293/
this one looks to be a similar decor with the crackle as well. Different colours but the crackle looks to be formed in a similar way.
m
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The crackle effect doesn´t necessarily have to be white BTW. Here´s a lamp I sold recently...
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Dirk, very nice one...
It does look similar to mine, doesn't it, and with a slightly unusual fixture as well.
I rechecked the metalwork on mine, and no mark anywhere.
m, the piece you linked to does look like it should be from the same maker, and so do some of the WMF lamp bases on the glaskilian site I linked to in my first post.
So I would say the glass is WMF, maybe the fixture isn't...
One more thing I noticed: at the base where the casing is quite thick, the clear glass seems to be brown and not colourless; the piece I referred to before (http://static.lottissimo.com/img.php?f=./119/bilder/extra/63-2042.jpg&t=z) seems to have a very similar base regarding the stepped foot and the colour.
Michael
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These really are beautiful lamps.
I think a thread should be started on here for Ikora lamps only, then that way, combined with Glaskilian's fantastic resource, it may eventually provide a comprehensive resource for Ikora lampbases.
m
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There is another one on ebay (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Wmf-Ikora-Lampe-/261010825218?pt=Design_Stil&hash=item3cc5752002) atm from an Austrian seller, which looks quite similar to mine regarding the pattern and technique...
It does have a rather unusual fixture (brass) as well. (No idea if it is marked in any way)
So there seems to be an Austrian style of Ikora lamps ;D
Michael
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aha, I hadn't managed to find these before strangely, I don't know why but I may have been looking at a different part of the site - these do seem to be in a similarish colourway do you think?
http://www.glaskilian.de/WMF.579.0.html
m
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Thanks m, I had linked to that site somewhere at the beginning of the thread...
They do look similar to mine (the crackle is a little bit less pronounced than in mine, but they also lack the silver chloride and the bubbles).
According to Glaskilian these seem to be WMF but not Ikora.
Michael
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I found another one of these lamps, same decoration as the first one, different shape and colours...
Has a brass fixture, and a hole in the centre of the base (don't really know why)
I still wonder about this style of Ikora lamps; they all have a shape different to the "classic" Ikora lamps, lack the silver chlorides, and usually have a brass fixture (rounded, not angled like the standard chrome fittings with WMF mark).
My new one is quite similar to the one I had linked to before: >> link (http://www.ebay.de/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item3cc5752002&item=261010825218&nma=true&pt=Design_Stil&rt=nc&si=HMFW9hhDLgIBhgCjWjhVPW4W%252FsE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)
There is another one on ebay atm with a very unusual shape as well, but quite similarly coloured to my first one: >> link (http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINAL-ALTE-SCHONE-ART-DEKO-IKORA-GLAS-TISCHLAMPE-LAMPE-UM-1930-/251096407261?pt=Design_Stil&hash=item3a76831cdd)
Any further thoughts? -- As none of these seems to me marked WMF, should we still consider the slight possibility of a different maker? ???
Thanks!
Michael
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oooh that's a lovely decor!
Tentatively, I don't suppose these could be Czechoslovakian could they? Maybe part of Kralik's art deco range of glass?
m
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Thanks a lot, m!
Yes, coulors in this one are even nicer than in the first one.
Search for Kralik or other Bohemian Art Deco glass lamps doesn't fetch any result, so I guess WMF is most probable at the moment (and as Dirk was 80% sure...); still interesting that -- despite of the obvious similarities in decor -- there are quite a few differences to known Ikora lamp bases.
My second one has a shape similar to this Ikora lamp base (http://www.glaskilian.de/Tischlampe-IKORA-Glas.143+B6YmFja1BJRD0xNDMmcHJvZHVjdElEPTY5NTMmcGlkX3Byb2R1Y3Q9MTQzJmRldGFpbD0_.0.html), but no exact match...
Michael
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It does still look like Ikora Michael.
Are there any other makers who may have adopted a similar technique? The only one I could think of to explore was possibly Kralik although I don't remember seeing this decor from them. I think they did do a cased crackle effect but not as complicated as this as I remember seeing?
m
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m, I am with Dirk (and you) in being 85% sure these are WMF Ikora...
It is just that the remaining 15% (the differences in shape, fitting, decor...) bring out my bad habit to research and speculate too much ;D
On Craig's great site are many Kralik Art Deco shapes and decors, some of which are similar to my lamps >> Link (http://www.kralik-glass.com/kralikdecoshapearray1.html)
But no exact match...
Michael
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As I have the yellow/red lamp in front of me at the moment (I rewired it, and it will be my new desk lamp), I am bringing this thread up again.
I have seen around six or seven more of these lamps locally since I last posted in this thread, a friend of mine has bought a very nice one, and none had a WMF fitting.
Here is another one on ebay from an Austrian seller, same decor as my first one, different shape: >> Link
(http://www.ebay.at/itm/ORIGINAL-ART-DECO-WMF-IKORA-GLAS-GLASS-LAMPE-LAMP-ORIGINAL-CONDITION-CA-1925-/161048885973?hash=item257f42fad5)
I am starting to lean towards a different maker than WMF, and I have found a candidate: S. Reich & Co / Českomoravské sklárny (ČMS).
Pressglas-korrespondenz.de has published a pattern book from around 1940, showing some lighting glass and vases in a style very similar to Ikora.
>> http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2011-4w-vejrostova-reich-1940.pdf (http://www.pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2011-4w-vejrostova-reich-1940.pdf)
Especiall some of the vases on page 11 (pic with the black background) look rather close to my lamps with the pronounced crackle pattern and the different coloured mottling; so do some of the the lamp bases on page 12.
As Reich was based in Vienna, and obviously one of the biggest glass makers at the beginning of the 20th century, that would explain the abundance of these lamps here...
I am grateful for any opinions if I could be on the right track, or just talking nonsense to myself ;D
Thanks,
Michael
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oooh yes!!! I would say definitely on the right track Michael - great sleuthing.
There are a few things there (I've looked at this before and don't know why I didn't pick up on these except I was looking for cameo glass)
that are very interesting in terms of other items as well -
Some of those look as though they could be misidentified as Kralik elsewhere perhaps (page 11) - I did mention pieces I'd seen as Kralik that had similarities to yours before ;D
Also the vase on page 8 - that reminds me of some Beranek pieces? (I need to do a translate on this to understand all that has been said)
and those pieces on page 13 - yellow and orange - maybe they are similar to a blue and red bowl that there was some discussion over recently on whether it was Monart or WMF.
Those ones on page 13 with the rings around the neck - they remind me of your pulegoso vases as does the texture on the Beranek type on on page 8 - were your two id'd as Reich - I can't remember :-[ not been on a glass page for nearly two weeks and my memory has deserted me.
m
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Very interesting, Michael - wow! That piece of info in PK escaped me... Thanks a lot! :o
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Thanks, so I am not making a complete fool out of myself, great ;D
Those pattern book pages are really interesting, regarding there is not much info found on the output of ČMS.
I was totally excited when I first saw them...
And some Pulegoso pieces which look suspicially like early Beranek, but are not in the pattern books, may be Reich as well (not very surprising, Emanuel Beranek seems to have been the technical director there before founding his own company).
@miranda: thanks for spotting those vases same shape (and size) as my Pulegoso piece with the ringed neck -- somehow they had escaped my attention due to the totally different decor. I got the ID from a Sypka auction catalogue, so didn't doubt really that they were Reich & Co., but good to have the pattern book images to confirm.
>> This ball lamp (http://katalog.auktionshaus-wendl.com/de/cmd/d/o/119.63-2042/auk/63/p/1/) I had linked to somewhere at the start could be a shape match to the lamp bases in the last row of page 12, but it is the only possible match so far. I have seen at least one lamp in this shape here as well.
I will take photographs of all others I come across...
The plot thickens :D
BTW, one of those nice knobbly vases (like the ones on page 6) is for sale here for quite some time, unfortunately at a ridiculously high prize.
Michael
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MIchael there is also a Johnolyth vase there right at the top - does it say anywhere there is a connection between Johnolyth and Reich please?
thanks
m
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The text left from that image says (approxiamtely, just a very rough translation ;) )
...Among the technologically sophisticated hot techniques, that were used at Krasno, was during the 1940s a painted decoration between two layers of glass. According to Jitka Lněničková this technique had been patented in 1915, and enhanced by Ernst Hantich during the 1920s with metal foil and air bubbles (similar to WMF Ikora)...
... "Johnolyth" from Ernst Hantich & Co was issued in 1931.
Miloš Bohuslav Volf attributes the design of those pieces to the brothers Zemek at Krasno glassworks, because there had been the technical and personel resources to realize them.
Michael
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oh, thank you:)
I found that a bit hard to understand, and I still don't understand it :-\
so is it saying that the Johnolyth pieces are a follow on from an idea already developed at Krasno? or is it saying that he attributes the Johnolyth pieces as being designed at Krasno by the Zemek brothers as they are the company that had the technology to be able to make them? mmm, why are they signed Johnolyth then? I'm a bit confused. (not hard lol).
m
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I found it confusing as well, that's why I had to translate the text (I wasn't able to give you a short summary) ;D
Michael
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oh good - it wasn't just me being a bit dense then ;D
I might try and delve for more information once I'm back on glass.
m
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Here is a pic of the lamp a friend owns...
Less crackle, but otherwise quite similar.
Michael
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Found one more of these lamps, very nice colours.
The green areas contain some green glitter (aventurine?).
Michael
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Wow! It looks like an erupting volcano... wonderful colors.
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Wow! I must say, will certainly be looking at for these types of lamps. Never heard of Ikora until now. Here is one I found during my searches for something else. Even though not crackled, still a nice piece indeed and has the original labels. Hope you like it
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.123552521165194.1073741836.112885065565273&type=3
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Ikora lamps are really beautiful.
But though very similar, the 3 lamp bases I posted in this thread could be from a different maker than WMF (see discussion above).
>> Here is another one on ebay.de (http://www.ebay.de/itm/WMF-Ikora-Lampenfuss-Leuchte-Lampe-Tischlampe-Fuss-Art-Deco-Glas-Tischleuchte-/370923479868), same shape as the two above, same decor as my other one -- see pic.
So all of them should be from the same maker...
Michael
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Another one of these lamp bases, unusual colourway of green and pink/purple (unfortunately without light fitting; funnily, I run across these topless lamps from time to time -- one would think that it was more likely to find the metal part without the glass ;) )
A while ago I saw a very nice blue one.
According to the bohemianglass.org website these were made by Ernst Steinwald glassworks (Franz Tomschick from 1938) for Glasmanufaktur Karl Picking Dresden. https://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-vz-5-370/detail/ (https://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-vz-5-370/detail/)
Don't know if this applies to all the different lamps shown in this thread, but at least we have an attribution for some of them. :)
Michael