Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Sendhandfran on April 09, 2014, 09:23:17 PM
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This could be from Stourbridge area but I'm not certain.
Any help?
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Hi just a guess but maybe Italian?? I have a Murano basket with the same rigaree
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Thank capitalartglass,
Italian! I never even considered that, lol.
I found one similar, but with a fatter body, described as by Lutz.
I also read, somewhere, that threaded glass was made a lot in England after the invention of a threading machine.
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Not Italian or Loetz (!); almost certainly English, but I doubt you'll find a manufacturer
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quite right - and here's another pair found recently in a charity shop. The exact same colourway and design is shown in Gulliver - page 113 - and dated to c. 1880.
They usaully have a rough snapped pontil scar Fran.
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Thanks everyone.
Wow, nice charity shop find Paul.
It does have a burned broken pontil.
I thought most likely English:)
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I've another, same colourway and approximate size, clear rigaree trail about 2" down from the rim, but a footed flute shape, which I've labelled as Stourbridge, c. 1880 from Gulliver. There must be some twenty or thirty examples of fine machine threading in Gulliver, few of which are attributed to a specific manufacturer. It's an essential reference for this decorative technique. Perhaps I should say "Greater Stourbridge", as I've recently found evidence that John Walsh Walsh of Birmingham did fine machine threading, which I suspected but couldn't prove before, and will come as no surprise to anyone.
Bernard C. 8)
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Worth mentioning here, for those who may have an interest in the process and history of machine threading, that there's a fairly substantial write up on this subject in Charles Hajdamach's first book 'British Glass 1800 - 1914' - chapter 12 'Patents & Techniques'.
In this respect, these volumes from Gulliver and Hajdamach are complimentary - the latter providing much historical text and photos of machines etc., whilst Gulliver provides high quality pix and specifications of the end result.
Fran's comment about the colour of the pontil scar seems to show that this discolouration is probably not uncommon - one of the above pair has a sort of dirt encrusted scar.
Charles Hajdamach's book, for those who collect C19 glass, is another essential volume, and very good value for money.
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The black on pontil marks is carbony rubbish from the end of the pontil rod
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thanks for the explanation. :)
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Snap (ish) ! But mine's just clear .... Four inches tall . :)
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threading appears to have been produced in several colours - the blue shown in this thread being possibly one of the most common - but clear threading on a clear body seems definitely to have been the least common of the combinations.
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Ooh yes. I like the clear one :) I've seen blue and yellow but never clear. Thanks
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These have a red body (with diamond pattern) cased in clear with yellow threading.
John
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Ooh they're nice too. Just out of curiosity, have u ever seen one with uranium glass threading? ;D
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I notice on some of these I've seen, the body can be fatter, the trim lower down, the thread not always go to the center of the pontil...i was wondering do you think they're likely variations due molds & because of hand applied decoration rather than being by a different maker?
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Machine threading was used by many glass makers which makes identification tricky, each factory probably produced a variety of shapes and variations further muddying the waters.
John
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As seems usual. Lol
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There were many small manufacturers in the Stourbridge area alone that could do this kind of threading apparently.... My clear vase has slightly different threading and rim but could come from the same place. I think we can be (almost) certain they are English. I wondered if the nice threaded wavy small dishes shared a locality of origin too..... I do hope we get a solid attribution one day.
Robert (bOBA)
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Thanks boBA. I read it was an Englishman (can't remember his name, probably in Stourbridge:) who came up with a threading machine and emigrated to the USA, i guess it quickly caught on all over. I saw a lovely nailsea vase with clear threading the other day. I'd never seen such a thing before, it was only a photo but it took me awhile to work out how it was made, with it clear glass threading. Amazing.
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According to Keith Vincent's book ('Nailsea Glass'), there certainly were pieces of genuine Nailsea glass - generally of some uniform shade of bottle green or darker with paler chips marvered in) that were decorated with a limited amount of hand applied threading - but unlike those shown here.
However, these were made prior to Hodgetts' invention in 1876 whereby mechanical means were used.
Apparently other houses came up with their own inventions of machines for threading within a very short time, so I'd have thought attribution nigh on impossible.
We've had lots of chats on Nailsea over the years, on the Board - well worth reading - they didn't, it seems, make any genuinely coloured glass, despite there being a mountain of suggestions in the literature that they did.
A big hiccup in the acceptance of provenance of a certain historic collection has given rise to what seems a permanent idea that those pieces with coloured festoons and swags were from Nailsea - more likely from Stourbridge or Bristol. This mis-attribution of Nailsea ware seems to be one of the most oft repeated errors in the books.
I don't know if Hodgetts emigrated to the States though :)
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those pieces with coloured festoons and swags were from Nailsea - more likely from Stourbridge or Bristol
or even Scotland. David (Langhaugh) has a piece of known provenance
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thanks for the correction Christine. :)
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Thanks boBA, Paul & Lustresstone. Fantastic info. I thought nailsea was another the name for the 'pulled feather' design, i didn't realise, like Stourbridge, its place!
I must read up on some posts.
Thank you :)
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I found this and just had to say I've never seen anything like it. I guess its a pulled feather design with clear glass threading, but I'm not sure, its hard to tell. I think its amazing, very clever.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181322765347?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Thank capitalartglass,
Italian! I never even considered that, lol.
I found one similar, but with a fatter body, described as by Lutz.
I also read, somewhere, that threaded glass was made a lot in England after the invention of a threading machine.
Not Italian or Loetz (!); almost certainly English, but I doubt you'll find a manufacturer
I've been reading about Lutz and wanted to add a note here to clarify that Lutz is not the same as Loetz / Lötz, as Christine's reply could be read as a correction to Senhandfran's. The former was a French-born glassmaker Nicholas Lutz (1835-1906), the latter was Loetz / Lötz - a Bohemian glassmaking company, http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/glass_encyclopedia/bohemian_glass/loetzglass_home.htm