Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: glassobsessed on June 23, 2015, 07:42:58 AM
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This arrived in an auction lot a couple of years ago but has remained a mystery to me. I think it was described by the auction as a drinking glass but a posy vase seems as likely.
3 inches tall, relatively thick walled and heavy, the rim is cut horizontally and on the outside edge vertically - can't remember seeing that before. Plenty of wear around the outer edge of the foot.
Any suggestions regarding function, age and origin would be great. There are a few items to be found on the board that have square and cut bases but they are much larger and made in clear glass.
John
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No idea what it's for - the concept of flower vases is relatively recent - but the square base was popular 1790-1820, give or take a few years.
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doesn't ring any bells for me either - but occurs to me that the lack of a stem might discount the drinking glass idea....... I'd go for simply a decorative piece or small vase. If it equates to any particular shape at all, then a jelly might be the nearest approximation - I'd suggest the shape is wrong for a salt.
the body cutting looks to be a modern take on scale cutting. I wonder if it started out life with a lid??
don't get the impression that Ivo was suggesting seriously that this might have been British, late Georgian/Regency - condition looks way too good for that sort of age despite the comments about wear - and Bristol blue is a colour that appears never to have been out of fashion, so age wise it could be from almost any time.
the star cuts appear to lack sharpness - might they be moulded perhaps? - and does it have a ring when flicked?
How about an egg cup for ducks eggs ;)
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I was more thinking of Ireland or Belgium. Not a salt, and did not have a lid as the inside is not suited to it. Might be a mustard, then.
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yes, mustard is a possibility - they had lids, usually, and there would have been a cut-out in the lid, to accommodate the spoon handle........... but since we don't have a lid..........
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That looks fab - intense cobalt blue, heavy, well-made IMHO. My impression is late 18th/early 19th century.
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Hi Julie - are your thoughts based on the colour alone? Forgive my ignorance, but is cobalt blue the same as Bristol blue - or is there a perceptible difference? I think we're still waiting for Chris to comment whether this is lead glass or not......... from that period we might expect it to be.
Does the cutting and condition look to be almost too good for 200 year old glass?
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Thanks all that is great, no wonder I was floundering with this as it is way outside my comfort zone. In terms of colour only I would describe the blue as cobalt, it has a lovely purple tone when held up to the light.
It feels 'weighty' enough to be lead but I am not sure, it also rings with a nice enough tone but then does not resonate for long.
Made in three parts, the star on the base is definitely cut and not moulded.
Who is Chris? ;D
John
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having a senior moment there John - sorry :)
my humble opinion is that your glass is not as old as might be first thought - i.e. bristol blue - square foot, star under, overlapping cutting etc. implying late Georgian.
To my eyes it looks in far too good condition to be period - those corners of the foot and the sharp arises and lack of damage to the intersections of the scale cutting, which to my eyes looks too deep. Also don't quite like the not so good accuracy of the bevelling on the square foot.
But not easy when looking at the screen, I know, but just one of those gut feelings - which could be wrong. ;D
Perhaps it's a Georgian 'lick' ;) ;)
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I have a fair few square based glasses, it makes no difference I have found on any of them regardless of age they have one thing in common, chips. Something 200 years old will be chipped on a square base unless it's been buried from new or in a museum from new, in my opinion there are too many upper and lower edges and corners not to be damaged. Here is an old glass that has been on here before, a 50's or early 60's wine glass (I would love to know the pattern of as I have a set of six) and a Webbs shot glass from the 80's all chipped in the right places.
The square base has been around for years.
Lovely looking glass John.
Yours could have been tinkered with though, re cut and polished. I see a lot of that in cut glass although the original base would have to have been big in order to polish a chip out, that assuming it had been damaged in the past.
If you look at the edge on the last base picture it looks like 3mm is missing to me on the edge of the tip of the star points?.
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Nice John,are the dimensions wrong for a egg cup?
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Cobalt blue is Bristol blue; the raw material was imported through Bristol initially
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thanks Christine.
I'm thinking that the cut and bevelled rim indicates a non-British origin - perhaps in some sense Ivo has already suggested that.
In terms of genuinely old pieces, then square bases can occur on big and small items - from quite dinkie monteiths/jellies, up to very large candlesticks - on many drinking glasses the square base was made by moulding (which included a recessed moulded star) and then ground/polished to give the finished square shape we see.
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Very interesting, all of the cutting and polishing lacks precision, I could easily be persuaded that this has had some modification. There are a couple of teeny tiny nibbles on corners but otherwise it seems very clean.
As it happens I don't quite agree with the 'if it is old it must be damaged' maxim, older items usually are but not always. I have had utterly perfects bit of 120 year old Salviati which are incredibly prone to damage.
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have to say John, that like Chris, virtually all of my Georgian/Regency pieces with square feet do show damage to some extent on the foot, and it's usually on the corners or edges - none has a foot as good as your example.
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I notice that the Baccarat perfume urn in one of the current posts shows substantial damage to one of the corners of its square foot.
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I had a square footed dark uranium open salt once (before the disaster) which was made by molineaux & webb circa 1850. I have also seen it in cobalt blue. In both cases the square foot was pristine, undamaged, unscratched.
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we would suggest that in both those instances the Gods were smiling on you - for us mere mortals most square feet we possess show damage in varying degrees - there must be a big premium on the perfect examples, and some of us have to settle for second best ;) ;)
So sorry to hear of your disaster :'(
It's all those right angles and sharp edges that just seem to tempt fate, and apart from the risk that ordinarily comes with substantial age, the entire nature of decoration and shape of most old cut pieces seems to invite damage.
Perhaps we should start a thread along the lines of............. what is acceptable in the way of damage, and what is not. I'd guess this might depend on age, rarity, value or just sentiment.
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I have about 30 odd bits of old murano glass now, only three are in good nick the others have repairs mainly at the weakest point on the stem which gives first if the glass has a knock, or they just shatter and are beyond repair none are chipped. I was looking through a box of charity shop donations earlier given to a local St Marys hospice i help and an independant church charity shop and you would not believe what gets thrown away, including lots of pressed glass and as a rule any charity shop can not sell anything chipped. If every one threw away six things a week thats 3,276,000 going into landfill or being recycled every year.
Most of my old murano glass does not look damaged the repairs are very clever, the local antiques dealers are always getting glass repaired at the red house glass cone not far from where i live, i reckon some repairs ruin the shape and original design.
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so where do these five hundred and forty six thousand people live Chris - are they all in your road ;D ;D - anyway we think it's cheating when you get first pick at the charity shops. ;) ;) - lucky you.
I think all of us - perhaps even Ivo - have the odd bit that's damaged - glass is impossible to use and not get broken occasionally. Some of us have more than others, and I'd rather have a Georgian piece with a little damage rather than nothing or little from that period.
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10500 charity shops, average 6 pieces a week chucked x 52. It's not that often anything good comes in, the two i help i tell them roughly what it's worth and they put a good price on it, lots of clear victorian pressed glass gets thrown out.
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don't forget to keep an eye out for unusual or early pieces with diamonds or Rd. Nos. - some can be rare.