Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on November 21, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
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I've no idea about this at all. I don't mind when it was made as I bought it out of curiosity - I like this design of glass and the colour and iridescence made it a bit different (although I can't stand the new frilly small bowl and cinderella carriage type stuff in clear :-[ )
I really can't pin it down to anything new or old. I've not found anything at all to match, although I have found recent clear 'variations' on a theme but they are zig zag at the top and have no final straight 'rim'.
I know the following:
- Steuben did a variation including 'lattice/trellis work' - sure it's not Steuben though is it? did they do this iridescence and colour?
- I'm pretty sure I recently found a Holmegaard version 19th century somewhere but cannot find the link again unfortunately - they were in clear and I don't think it's them but maybe Scandinavian perhaps?
- Thomas Webb patented a zig zag basket 7" high and straighter sides than this, sort of like an upright straight sided ice bucket type shape, with glass liner, in 1901
- Boulton and Mills patented a rim that consisted of this type of zig zag ( wondering if Jinxi's 'pear' bowl on this thread (link below) might be Boulton and Mills perhaps?)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,36683.msg199874.html#msg199874
- There are new variations on this theme some blue and clear, some clear, but I've not found any this shape so far, and none in this colour and iridescent finish. That's not to say they don't exist being jobbed out somewhere though.
My bowl:
- The glass rings but it's not overtly heavy, probably normal for size, not light either.
- Everything about it is in excellent condition, apart from heavy wear around three fairly longish areas around the base rim,which I was quite surprised to see as I'd been expecting it to be brand new for some reason.
- It has a fair amount of accumulated dust and dirt but nothing that wouldn't accumulate over a few years I guess.
- It's slightly iridescent purples and oranges, but no surface texture.
- Big at 10" wide by 3 3/4" high
- All handmade
- The base and pontil mark are very indented, however the pontil mark looks as though the pontil rod had five or six 'grips' on it as it's left little marks around the pontil mark circle rather than it being snapped off leaving a straight line or a round snapped off mark. Might this indicate a newer type of pontil rod maybe?
My first thought was a museum replica, but a replica of what? I've not found any very old a Traforato pieces in anything other than clear and very few references for those.
My second thought was that perhaps it might be an Art Nouveau era piece when iridescence was at it's height?
I have searched extensively on this one, on the net, in all my books etc, and absolutely nothing. So any help or ideas very much appreciated.
Thanks :)
m
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close up of foot profile and showing indented pontil mark
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Have no idea but very Pretty
I think I did once see something like this at Antique Helper (maybe under Murano) or just under the words of Art glass. It was a weaved pattern basket like this in an iridescent clear
That's all I can say -- but yours is very pretty too!! ;)
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ooh thanks Rose :) - I'll go take a look and see if I can find anything.
edited -
well I did find this one - not the same but lots of similarities?
http://www.antiquehelper.com/item/333033
and this
http://www.antiquehelper.com/item/326374
and look at the pontil mark on the bowl! It has blobs
http://www.antiquehelper.com/auctionimages/48172.jpg
blimey Rose :o that was inspired - thanks, I have something else to search around now.
m
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Murano-signed-Ercole-Barovier-Iridato-Vase-/281209607821
This vase also has the odd pontil mark and is signed E. Barovier 1954 or 1957. Listed as Iridato Ercole Barovier.
It is an iridised clear glass vase with pulls on top.
This charger (aventurine and bubbles in clear - 15" wide) through Christie's also has the odd pontil mark if you hover over the centre of the last picture and is listed as Ercole Barovier dates to 1930s and has the remains of the label.
I've also found a number of examples of this particular colour green in iridised form from Ercole Barovier, notably Eugeneo.
The pink lattice basket with fruit is listed here as c.1910
http://www.palmbeachmodernauctions.com/October2011_3.asp
Is my basket by Ercole Barovier? The Dan Ripley auctions seems to suggest the basket ones are c.1920s.
Does anyone know please?
Thanks
m
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Ercole Barovier Primavera bowl Italy, 1929
This bowl also seems to have the heavily indented base
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6027249
and this vase has the same pontil mark with the blobs and uses that green glass
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7296200
m
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That pontil is typically Italian and used by the companies you mentioned .
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Thank you JP :)
I've found this lamp, sold in 2005. It has the fruit in the top of a different kind of bowl but some of the fruit (particularly the crimson ones that look like either raspberries or lichees) look remarkably similar to fruit in the pink lattice bowl and the green bowl with fruit on top linked in the Dan Ripley site.
This lamp has a partial label remaining and the listing says '...Partial manufacturer's label to underside: [Vetrepia Artisti Barovier Murano]'.
In addition, the two green bowls sold for $14,500 together, and were listed as Artisti Barovier on Dan Ripley, not attributed. And the pink was also a firm id not an attribution as there were on other pieces. Therefore I believe these are from Artisti Barovier.
My bowl is the same lattice design as the pink bowl and the underside of the fruit lids on the pink and green.
The way the glass is finished on the surrounding rim is the same as the green bowl.
The colour green looks right for Artisti Barovier
The iridescence looks right for Artisti Barovier
The pink bowl also has an indented base as do the Primavera range pieces I've found, also by Artisti Barovier.
The pontil mark is right.
I have found a separate lid of fruit that sold and it measures what I believe is the same diameter as the narrower pink basket (7 1/2" wide). The pink basket is listed as being 10 1/2" tall in the Ripley auction so the width looks right for that looking at the shape of the piece.
The wider green bowl with fruit is a solid bowl rather than lattice, but has the lattice on the lid with the fruit set onto that. The Ripley auction says it is 8" high (I believe this is with fruit lid in place). My estimates, measuring the photograph, are that would make the bowl c. 10" wide and the height of the bowl c. 3 1/2" to 4" i.e. the same as mine.
http://www.antiquehelper.com/auctionimages/48172.jpg (if you click on the bottom photo on the left it will enlarge to show the lattice)
Mine has no evidence on the rim of having ever supported a lid of fruit. I assume that the fruit, although probably not overheavy, might be too heavy to be supported on the size and shape and openwork design of my lattice bowl ( hence the large green bowl in the Ripley auction being solid).
Taking all this into account I believe mine is part of this range made by Artisti Barovier (and possibly Ercole Barovier according to the listing for the pink bowl) but I don't think mine would have had a fruit lid.
Rose, thank you so very much! I would never have found this as I have searched on these bowls for a good few months now for something else. Thank you, I really appreciate it :)
m
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Thank you JP :)
I've found this lamp, sold in 2005.......
Rose, thank you so very much! I would never have found this as I have searched on these bowls for a good few months now for something else. Thank you, I really appreciate it :)
m
Thanks, Your Welcome! :-*
I just happened to remember seeing something like it and remembered which site it was on. I just thought I would *throw it out there* for you and just mention it and see where it goes. Guess I lucked out that time!
;D
Nice to be able to help others back when so many of you have helped me!!
Looks like your bowl has a prominent ID now!! Nice FIND!!!
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thanks Rose
I realised I hadn't linked the labelled lamp with fruit
http://www.wright20.com/auctions/view/BZ9U/F57Y/173/LA/none/TOP/0/
I'm very happy :)
m
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That pontil is typically Italian and used by the companies you mentioned .
Thanks JP, that was new to me.
I recently posted >> this nice Zanfirico vase (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54674.0.html), which seems to have a similar pontil mark to several of the pieces in this thread (especially the Barovier "Iridato" vase).
Michael
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http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g187870-d240695-Reviews-Barovier_Toso-Venice_Veneto.html
I found this piece - a photograph from the Barovier & Toso museum :)
m
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a description of the piece above in case the link disappears
It is a lantern shaped bird cage with a yellow bird inside it. The cage is the same lattice as the pink basket with fruit and appears to be the same pink with gold or very similar. The cage has a glass ring for hanging at the top.
m
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Nope - according to Barovier e Toso it's not past production from their company.
Back to the drawing board.
Is it likely to be Italian given the pontil mark?
As certain as I can be lol, having had a good look at the actual glass and the wear on the base, that it isn't new production.
Any more thoughts or leads much appreciated.
Many thanks :)
m
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Adding some more pictures of the base to show the glass.
The base/bottom of the bowl reminds me of a bullseye window.
Right in the middle of the pontil mark the glass is smooth and forms a small nipple.
The picture of the wear is just of one small part as it's so difficult to photograph, but the wear is completely matt - not new stuff.
The bowl rings but it's not overtly heavy and I don't think it's lead?
thanks for looking and any comments
m
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Does anyone know if C.V.M. used this pontil mark please? Also if they used this colour glass ?
I've found a couple of pieces using the basket lattice technique one by C.V.M. the other listed as possibly C.V.M.
The second is a completely different shape and colour but also has the very subtle iridescence -
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/opac.aspx?WEB=MuseiVE&LNG=ENG
The first has the lattice applied over a central solid bowl.
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/opac.aspx?WEB=MuseiVE&LNG=ENG
For interest this is a piece of Salviati using a similar technique.
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/opac.aspx?WEB=MuseiVE&LNG=ENG
m
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aargh - my links never work properly
Can I try this one for the top link (you may need to hold control button down whilst pressing the minus symbol to reduce the size as they are fabulously huge photos showing all close up detail -
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/ShowDialog.aspx?TITLE=VIEWERTITLE&TBL=OA&ID=322453&Ext=JPG&Folder=&MODE=VIEW&OPAC=DEFAULT&WEB=MuseiVE
This for the next one
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/ShowDialog.aspx?TITLE=VIEWERTITLE&TBL=OA&ID=322219&Ext=jpg&Folder=&MODE=VIEW&OPAC=DEFAULT&WEB=MuseiVE
This one a completely different design but using the similar lattice
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/ShowDialog.aspx?TITLE=VIEWERTITLE&TBL=OA&ID=322337&Ext=JPG&Folder=&MODE=VIEW&OPAC=DEFAULT&WEB=MuseiVE
Cannot refind the one from Salviati at the moment.
I am confused about C.V.M. and I don't know whether they were a maker or whether they were a maker and also had pieces made for them by other companies.
m
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http://catalog.quittenbaum.de/object_detail_Vier_Vasen_soffiati_1920er_Jahre_Pauly_C_C_V_M_Murano3B_Cappellin_C_M_V_M_Murano3B_Murano__63919__list_objects__M_104B__0__eng
http://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/dining-entertaining/bowls/cvm-soffiato-pagliesco-charger/id-f_741369/
These are examples of the bases I've managed to find. They appear to be similar to mine in that they seem to have the multi blobs (more than 5) difficult to tell though on both. First is part of a selling set of 4 and I'm afraid I can't work out whether or not they are all attributed, or just one is, and even to who although C.V.M. is mentioned :-\
Second is also id'd as C.V.M.
so possibly on the right track with Italian anyway.
m
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This is from the Steuben site shape 644
in green
to show an example for future reference for anyone searching
http://www.cardersteubenclub.org/shapes/item-view.cfm?RecordID=24164&back=1
If you click on the other designs individually, it should show other colours
other links
http://www.cardersteubenclub.org/shapes/item-view.cfm?category=Shape%20Index&recordID=26038&back=1
http://www.cardersteubenclub.org/shapes/item-view.cfm?category=Shape%20Index&recordID=18058&back=1
http://www.cardersteubenclub.org/shapes/item-view.cfm?category=Shape%20Index&recordID=20510&back=1
I know there are more versions but I can't find them at the moment
m
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Steuben no. 644 and no. 7177 featured in this sale
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/14808/lot/1055/
An odd shape Steuben found under pattern number 2896
http://www.cardersteubenclub.com/shapes/item-view.cfm?RecordID=24463&back=1
and a variety here
http://www.cardersteubenclub.com/shapes/results-view.cfm?keyword=1&category=Shape%20Index
m
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Further to discussion on another thread ref age of this bowl and techniques, I've taken some more close up pictures of the glass. Looking at it there is nothing to suggest to me that this is of recent manufacture. Obviously, wear and bubbles in the metal etc can all be recent I know, but it just doesn't speak new to me :-\ I think this it is old. The wear on the base rim is matt, years of wear, but the interior of the bowl is in excellent condition. I don't feel the wear on the base is faked btw.
( I am aware I'm digging myself a great big hole for the day when someone says 'aha...replica made 2 years ago' ;D )
m
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trellis or lattice version of a new candle holder being sold by Nazeing Glass factory shop - open clear trellis but with an open spiky top and a solid black coloured glass base
I don't know where it was made though
http://www.nazeing-glass-factoryshop.co.uk/PBHotNews.asp?PBMInit=1
'New I-Net Candleholders
We now have a selection of i-Net glass lattice candle holders back in stock.
These beautiful pieces of decorative glassware have a solid glass base and a glass latticework body (a glass "net").
All are hand made and come with a pillar candle.'
m
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I have been having fun trying to think of the different techniques for making such a lattice.
The fastest and possibly easiest I can think of would to start with the circular base, then placing it on a turntable and using a rod of the same color glass, a torch, and a metal rod with a hook on the end (likely having a assistant in there as well) heat the rod and touch it to the base to fuse the end, then heating a length of an inch or two of the rod to make it soft, use the metal rod with the hook to pull it upwards to form an inverted V while you are pulling down on the rod to touch and fuse it to the base an inch or so from the previous fusing, and work you way around the base to you wind up with a saw tooth pattern of the glass standing up from the base. Then go around again but this time fusing the heated rod to the tips of each of the lower row of inverted Vs. Repeat this all the way to the top where you fuse a ring of the glass to the tips of the top row.
Another more involved way might be to build a jig of perhaps one-third of the diameter and using cut 1 inch lengths from a glass rod, lay them in the jig and then using a length of the same glass rod just heat and fuse all of the ends together. Make three of these and if you have made your jig well the ends should match up well and you can then heat/fuse them together to make the full circle. Attach a solid base and a top ring to finish it off.
Does anyone know if these basket shapes used either of these methods or perhaps some other method to get the lattice design?
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:) there is a demonstration of contemporary one of these being made by a Czech master glassblower (Tom Fuhrman pointed me in the right direction) - I'll try and find the picture for you.
edited to add - top row picture on the right on this link - Petr Novotny
http://www.ajetoglass.com/en/ajeto-glass-novy-bor/school/
discussion on this subject is on this thread here
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54937.msg311339.html#msg311339
BOŘEK ŠÍPEK also uses this trellis work in his designs - some pics from "Studio Anežka" located in Nový Bor
http://boreksipek.com/images/slide/slide67.jpg
m
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Have no idea but very Pretty
I think I did once see something like this at Antique Helper (maybe under Murano) or just under the words of Art glass. It was a weaved pattern basket like this in an iridescent clear
That's all I can say -- but yours is very pretty too!! ;)
....better late than Never....LOL...always had this post in the back of my Mind
Something similar for ya:
http://www.antiquehelper.com/item/333033
(http://www.pic4ever.com/images/confetti.gif)
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Hi Rose and thank you for still looking for me :D
I did use that example and sent my pics to Barovier and Toso ... who unfortunately said it was not from their stable.
I'm still keeping my eyes peeled. I feel sure it is old and is Murano rather than more recent and Studio or Czech. But that's just gut feel ;D
m
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Who could forget this bowl!!
The Style, shape and Color -- So Stunning :)
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ok, so I am just adding this link in case it comes in handy at a later date:
http://archivi.cini.it/centrostudivetro/archive/IT-CSV-GUI001-000004/dino-martens.html
Coppa Iridata 1948