Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: ageconcernbury on June 10, 2010, 01:43:53 PM
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Hello,
I am posting on behalf of Age Concern in Bury, Lancashire. We have received as a donation at one of our charity shops of 4 Caithness glasses. Following an email to Caithness Glass they were able to find the shape in their archives, but not the specific engravings (copperwheel engravings I'm told). Apparently in 1977 this type of product was retailing for anything between £35 and £50 so we would love to get an up to date valuation before we attempt to sell them.
Two of the glasses do not match and are engraved with leaves. The matching pair engraved with birds have the following inscription to the base "Caithness Glass, No. 26/50 M575 Swallow" as well as what appears to be a personal inscription "Denis' Mam".
Any information about the history and/or value of these items would be hugely appreciated as I'm a bit stuck at the moment. I've attached some pictures to help identify the glasses-many thanks!
Caitlin
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Denis Mann is the engraver of the swallows.
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Thank you that is a helpful start! It did seem an odd inscription-silly me!
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And his work is very, very highly regarded indeed - he engraved the BBC Mastermind Trophy, which he designed in conjunction with Colin Terris, who sadly died in 2006. Denis is currently deeply involved with Northlands Creative Glass in Lybster.
This is a very attractive and desirable shape of glass. Checking Frank's site, Andy MacConnell has attributed these to Charles Orr.
Info.from "Scotland's Glass: 400 Years of Glassmaking" by Shiona Airlie and Brian J.R. Blench", published by Cortex design.
Not engraved by somebody as prestigeous as Denis Mann, these are still very desirable glasses. They are more often seen with coloured bowls. See the link here, to Frank's site.
http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=88&Itemid=6
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Thank you that sounds really interesting. The engraving of the birds is particularly lovely and your information helps to explain this. Does anyone have any idea what we should sell them for in our charity shop? Our would it be better to sell them on ebay or this site? Sorry to be so clueless glass really isn't something I know about although I'm beginning to see these glasses might be very special indeed :) Thanks again you're very helpful people!
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That's a bit more difficult!
We don't really "do" valuations here, they're very subjective.
How much you can raise in your shop depends very much on the area you're in and the sorts of customer you have.
If you have rich and generous customers, you might be able to put a good price on and get it, particularly if you can provide this information about them. I'm really not too sure how they would do on ebay, but if you take that route, be sure to include the American market - Caithness is very popular there. However, the worry of ebay is that they may crash.
Perhaps try the shop first?
Putting on my own "bric-a-brac-person" hat, I might try £25-30 for each of the leafy ones.
I've honestly not a clue about the Denis Mann ones. You've got good information about them, they're engraved by one of the very top engravers, they're signed and you have a pair. Think of a nice number and try it out on your customers, maybe £200 - 250 for the pair?
Display them nicely!
If that doesn't work, you could try ebay - but be sure to have GOOD close-up images of the engraving and the signature marks.
Rubbing a tiny amount of talcum powder over them helps, and take pictures against a black background. Somebody here recently said that using auctivia means you can put in lots of images without incurring loads of charges - sorry, I can't remember who said it, and I don't sell things myself.
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Here's a link to Denis Mann's own site.
http://www.denismann.com/index.html
and a couple of links to items other sellers have for sale.
http://www.iauctionshop.co.uk/denis-f-mann-boxed-pr-engraved-caithness-glass-goblets-p-291.html
http://www.stylendesign.co.uk/modern/G847b.html
However, you have to remember they may not sell at this price, there are differences in the complexity of the engraving and the amount of work involved.
Personally, I like the shape of your goblets better then the ordinary shape there.
Good luck.
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This is a very attractive and desirable shape of glass. Checking Frank's site, Andy MacConnell has attributed these to Charles Orr.
Do you mean Norman Orr, Sue? I wasn't aware of a Charles Orr. Again, another highly regarded engraver.
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Only quoting from Frank's site David, and Frank was quoting Andy....
http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=408&category_id=88&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6
>:D So I don't know what/who Andy meant, but we're referring to the designer of this chunky and elegant goblet, not engraving - though there is no reason an engraver could not design a shape.
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... and Andy was quoting...? ;D
Interesting that Max has these - that's two different Orr inspired pieces she has - see p.67
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You're asking me what Andy was thinking????
I've got a set of 6 small goblets in purple - and a matching decanter - all bought at the same time - I didn't act as any sort of registrar - backroom or otherwise!
I'll get an image soon. Perhaps the decanter shape might assist in pinning down the designer?
hmmm, there are 2 small peat coloured ones in my local Heart Foundation shop - I was virtuous and left them behind. Michael never appreciates my virtuosity in leaving things behind - just moans about the stuff I bring in.
I keep telling him he needs to appreciate my restraint - or there's no point at all in exercising it, is there?
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Thank you all very much. I'm more of a book lady but your passion for glass is infectious and I feel so much more clued up now. Thank goodness we didn't put them out for the bargain price of £10 for the 4!! I appreciate that valuation is a subjective thing but still helpful to clueless old me as are the various links and other comments. I think we will try them in the shop first-we have a special cabinet for extra special items so they'll go in there! I'll let you know how we get on if you like? Thanks especially to chopin-liszt for all your help and advice it's very much appreciated.
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Good luck with them - I hope you have generous customers, who have good taste. Providing the info. about Denis Mann I hope, will help a lot.
I've met him - we had a lovely conversation about his piece, "Dischord". (The blue panel on his site.) I was confused about the notes being played by the hands - they didn't make musical sense - then he pointed out to me that one hand was female, the other, male, quite on top of the musical incongruity.
(I used to sort the bric-a-brac for Oxfam - along with a load of other jobs - folk who work in charity shops have my respect.)
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Pic. of the decanter I got with the set of glasses.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/chopin-liszt/oldglass/Caithness.jpg
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;D
According to my lovely new book:-
"Scotland's Glass: 400 Years of Glassmaking" by Shiona Airlie and Brian Blench, published by Cortex Design,
the decanter above is Canisbay.
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And his work is very, very highly regarded indeed - he engraved the BBC Mastermind Trophy, which he designed in conjunction with Colin Terris,
That was error in the book, Colin Terris was not involved, see here (http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=24&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=4520&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6)
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I have a written note of the correction from Brian Blench, taken during his lecture!
The Mastermind trophy is ALL Denis Mann's work. No Colin Terris.
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The book editor would like to point out that this "fact" was in the initial draft from BB and that she didn't know any better.
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You are completely exonorated, Your Editorialshipness. :thud:
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And the glasses ARE Canisbay, so not Dunnet and probably not Charles Orr - no relation to Norman Orr.
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The glasses are indeed Canisbay, and were produced in a number of sizes for different drinks. The designer of the Canisbay range was Colin Terris - all this and much more in my new Caithness Glass book, available from my website (link below in my signature).
Thanks,
Mark