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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Scandinavian Glass => Topic started by: kennyg on October 15, 2009, 05:51:59 PM
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Anybody know of this is a Holmeagaard vase? if so, any idea of age? I've never seen this color...is it rare?
it's 17 1/2 inches tall..
Thank You!
Ken
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It's not a production colour, and it's too large for the British-made Cascade ones produced in a similar colour under license in the early 1970s. Lots of copies have been made by other companies over the last 40 years... but occasional oddities from Kastrup/Holmegaard are known... so it's near-imposible to tell without handling it.
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Looks okay to me, shape, colour and height match the item number 40230 in the Kastrup Glasswork catalogue from 1964, here called cobalt blue in transparent glass.
You can see several Gulvvaser in many different colours on my homepage under Artglass, hit letter G and find Gulvvaser.
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Cobalt is much much darker, surely?
(http://www.holmegaardresource.com/images/brau_gul_002_b.jpg)
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Cobalt is much much darker, surely?
http://www.holmegaardresource.com/brau_gul_002.html
No, Nic not at that time in transparent blue in the catalogue called cobalt.
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I do have that catalogue page, but the colours in the copy are a little hard to make out properly - I've colour-corrected it as best I can (assuming no change in the Olive Green colour post-1965).
I also have a large Cobalt gulvvase, with what should be the original Kastrup label, and this is the normal dark cobalt blue.
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I do have that catalogue page, but the colours in the copy are a little hard to make out properly - I've colour-corrected it as best I can (assuming no change in the Olive Green colour post-1965).
I also have a large Cobalt gulvvase, with what should be the original Kastrup label, and this is the normal dark cobalt blue.
The gulvvaser has been made in many different blue colours, the 1967-1973 Kastrup-Holmegaard Glasswork catalogue has the same transparent blue colour as dark blue and it is very simelary to the 1964 Kastrup Glasswork catalogue but there called cobalt blue.
The later catalogue from 1973-1976 Holmegaard catalogue has the colour as your vase photo but the colour is listed as dark blue transparent.
Only the oldest catalogue use the colour cobalt blue newer catalogue reffers the colour as dark blue.
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Peter,
Would you consider this color "rare"?
Ken
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Are they not just the same colour with different names? I've never seen a transparent Kastrup or Holmegaard gulvvase in any blue colour other than this dark cobalt blue.
The vase in the original post looks more like Capri-blue, but is probably lighter even than that.
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Are they not just the same colour with different names? I've never seen a transparent Kastrup or Holmegaard gulvvase in any blue colour other than this dark cobalt blue.
The vase in the original post looks more like Capri-blue, but is probably lighter even than that.
The blue colour through time are not the same but several shades of blue I would say from sky blue/ocean blue til the very dark blue.
In the 1973-1976 Holmegaard catalogue there are 3 colours statet as transparent out of the 6 colours present:
brun/brown/braun/brun transparent
mørkeblå/dark blue/dunkelblau/bleu foncé transparent
olivengrøn/olive green/olivgrün/vert olive transparent
Then there is full colour glass (or what it is called in English)
Gul opal/yellow opal
opalhvid/opal
koral opal/coral opal
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The last three colours would be 'cased' or 'opaque'.
The term 'Cobalt', in English at least, refers to a specific very dark blue - the blue illustrated in my own photograph. Allowing for a little bit of colour-difference from the poor copy of the Kastrup catalogue, this looks much closer to my dark blue vase than the vase in the original post which is almost turquoise.
I've got the gulvvase page from the 1967-1973 Kastrup-Holmegaard catalogue, and the blue looks a little lighter than the cobalt, possibly due to poor colour reproduction, maybe due to a temporary change of colour, but still not as light as Ken's vase.
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Peter,
Would you consider this color "rare"?
Ken
I am not in doubt that the vase is a Gulvvase from Holmegaard Glasswork, Kastrup Glasswork actually it has been produced at Fyens Glasswork and one of the few items that glassblower has become a production item and the design i the hut chief glassblower Otto Brauer and later it became the Gulvvase series.
I do not consider you vase colour as rare Otto Brauer gulvvaser is to be found in different colours and heights but the most known is the ones shown in the catalogues.
Most important is that the right dimensions and shape is present at the vase in questions and I think yours is correct.
All of the gulvvaser on my webpage is gulvvaser designed by Otto Brauer, Fyens Glasswork so they can be found in different colours, shapes and heights other than those appearing in Gulvvaser catalogue.
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The last three colours would be 'cased' or 'opaque'.
The term 'Cobalt', in English at least, refers to a specific very dark blue - the blue illustrated in my own photograph. Allowing for a little bit of colour-difference from the poor copy of the Kastrup catalogue, this looks much closer to my dark blue vase than the vase in the original post which is almost turquoise.
I've got the gulvvase page from the 1967-1973 Kastrup-Holmegaard catalogue, and the blue looks a little lighter than the cobalt, possibly due to poor colour reproduction, maybe due to a temporary change of colour, but still not as light as Ken's vase.
Do not known the correct English word, just stated the terms in the catalogue in Dansih the two coloured items would be "overfangs glas"
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I still reserve my judgement on the authenticity of this vase - the colour is very different from the catalogues, as illustrated above, and the sizes/shape have been copied very exactly by several glassworks over the years, predominantly in Italy during the 1970s.
I've even seen a few Gulvvaser, in various sizes - including 17", in solid black, which were almost definitely not by Holmegaard and very probably produced in England circa late 1970s (two of them, 15" tall if I remember correctly, bore large screenprinted designs with commemorative logos for the Queen's 1977 jubilee).
When a form is as widely and often exactly reproduced as the Gulvvase the feature you have to rely on most to make a 'best guess' is the veracity of the colour palatte used. This vase just doesn't tick that box for me when faced with the production catalogue evidence.
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I still reserve my judgement on the authenticity of this vase - the colour is very different from the catalogues, as illustrated above, and the sizes/shape have been copied very exactly by several glassworks over the years, predominantly in Italy during the 1970s.
I've even seen a few Gulvvaser, in various sizes - including 17", in solid black, which were almost definitely not by Holmegaard and very probably produced in England circa late 1970s (two of them, 15" tall if I remember correctly, bore large screenprinted designs with commemorative logos for the Queen's 1977 jubilee).
When a form is as widely and often exactly reproduced as the Gulvvase the feature you have to rely on most to make a 'best guess' is the veracity of the colour palatte used. This vase just doesn't tick that box for me when faced with the production catalogue evidence.
I do not have doubt about Ken vase in spite of the colour, and if I look the shape of the vase over it has the right shoulders, right neck and thickness of the neck and the top of vase is finished in the right way.
Otto Brauer gulvvaser has been made in a lot of different sizes and colours that you will not find in any catalogue, Ken vase with the height of approx. 43 cm would probably have a weight of 1200 gram + - 200 grams.
The exact vases you are referring to is often very thin and light glass with different shoulders and often thinner necks and I must say that I have not seen the Brauer quality gulvvase matched in copy vase here in Denmark, yet.
Otto Brauer Gulvvaser is not narrowed down to the few colours found in catalogues, but several more and that goes for size too.
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The black ones, that I've seen and handled, were near-perfect replicas of the original vases - the weight and thickness of the glass was pretty much spot-on. The only thing that made me think that they were likely not authentic was the colour.
Then there's not forgetting the Gulvvaser that were made in England under licence from Holmegaard in something very like this light blue colour - so far I've only seen them in 10" and 12", but that does not mean that larger ones don't exist. These too are identical to the originals, except for colour.
I think a lot of the copies made in mainland Europe washed up in the UK - Denmark is probably quite lucky that way. Conversely, you probably see lot more of the genuine oddities, and are more open-minded towards them.
So I'm not saying that undocumented colours do not exist, as I've owned an Olivengrøn/Opal vase myself, and have seen one using Kastrup's Lila/Opal colour-scheme, which was mostly used for glass lamps. But I think these are the exceptions rather than the rule - especially outside of Denmark.
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This is one of the smaller English-made Gulvvaser:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-HOLMEGAARD-CASCADE-BLUE-GLASS-GULVVASE-BOTTLE-VASE_W0QQitemZ220473556088QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Art_Glass?hash=item33553f7c78
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The black ones, that I've seen and handled, were near-perfect replicas of the original vases - the weight and thickness of the glass was pretty much spot-on. The only thing that made me think that they were likely not authentic was the colour.
Then there's not forgetting the Gulvvaser that were made in England under licence from Holmegaard in something very like this light blue colour - so far I've only seen them in 10" and 12", but that does not mean that larger ones don't exist. These too are identical to the originals, except for colour.
I think a lot of the copies made in mainland Europe washed up in the UK - Denmark is probably quite lucky that way. Conversely, you probably see lot more of the genuine oddities, and are more open-minded towards them.
So I'm not saying that undocumented colours do not exist, as I've owned an Olivengrøn/Opal vase myself, and have seen one using Kastrup's Lila/Opal colour-scheme, which was mostly used for glass lamps. But I think these are the exceptions rather than the rule - especially outside of Denmark.
Have seen black ones too produced here in dk actually they are not black but very dark Lila that looks black.
Do have seen you mentioned that the vase has been made at Cascade with license and have tried to get that confirmed here in dk but without any luck so fare.
It can be hard to say how things have turned up in different countries of the items that have not been sold in the countries shops, so it could be from people move, visitting, gifts or maybe sold from an exhibition held in the country, so Ken vase does not have to been bought in a shop in England, could as well have been bought in a vacation to dk as well and brought back to uk.
I am sure that there is very good copies out there, but I at the same time think that many more of them is pretty easy to recognize as not Holmegaard and that leaves us with very few that maybe maybe not is Holmegaard Brauer.
If ones wants to be sure that it is a Gulvvase from Holmegaard they ofcouse should stick to the colours and sizes specified in the available catalogues
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The Cascade Gulvvaser are fairly common in the UK, and pop up with their original factory labels regularly.
Insofar as I know, they were originally produced as display pieces in Ralph Lauren clothes shops in England in the 1970s - possibly in a number of sizes - and the smaller sizes 10" and 12" were put into production for general sale. The verified commercially-produced colours from Cascade are:
Pewter-Grey
Brown-Topaz
Clear
Light Blue
Cobalt (same shade as the Holmegaard vases)
Amber/Brown (also the same shade as the Holmegaard vases).
There are also small clear gulvvaser with screenprinted horizontal bands of colour that sometimes come up for sale - I've not discovered yet if these are English-made or European, but they seem to appear most around France, Belgium and the Netherlands.
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The Cascade Gulvvaser are fairly common in the UK, and pop up with their original factory labels regularly.
Insofar as I know, they were originally produced as display pieces in Ralph Lauren clothes shops in England in the 1970s - possibly in a number of sizes - and the smaller sizes 10" and 12" were put into production for general sale. The verified commercially-produced colours from Cascade are:
Pewter-Grey
Brown-Topaz
Clear
Light Blue
Cobalt (same shade as the Holmegaard vases)
Amber/Brown (also the same shade as the Holmegaard vases).
There are also small clear gulvvaser with screenprinted horizontal bands of colour that sometimes come up for sale - I've not discovered yet if these are English-made or European, but they seem to appear most around France, Belgium and the Netherlands.
My point is that if Cascade, UK has license to produce Otto Brauer Gulvvase design from Holmegaard would it not then still be a "Otto Brauer Gulvvase" produced on English factory or will you refere to it as a Cascade product. Can not imagine that Holmegaard in giving this license also would have had to deliver the mould for the gulvvase and perhaps also have some saying on which colours they will allow.
In my book a Otto Brauer Gulvvase produced with license from Holmegaard at Cascade factory, UK would be still be a Otto Brauer design of origin.
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Oh, yes, they'd still be an 'Otto Brauer design', if made from the same moulds as the Holmegaard ones (they seem to be), but they would not be Holmegaard Gulvvaser. Collectors do make this distinction when buying them, even the ones with the same colouring as the Holmegaard originals, as the Cascade versions sell for much less than the Danish-made vases.
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Oh, yes, they'd still be an 'Otto Brauer design', if made from the same moulds as the Holmegaard ones (they seem to be), but they would not be Holmegaard Gulvvaser. Collectors do make this distinction when buying them, even the ones with the same colouring as the Holmegaard originals, as the Cascade versions sell for much less than the Danish-made vases.
That I think is more due to the popularity of certain colours I would still call them Holmegaard Gulvvaser, gulvvaser is just the dk name for flower vase placed on the floor or maybe it is called a floorvase it is not a reel name "gulvvaser" in danish could be any vase big enough to use as a vase standing on the floor.
If I turn it a bit around with the Provence bowls this design was relaunched with new sizes a few years back, if you take the new one and have one of the Lutken old ones they are not the same quality because they have been made i Poland, the same with Shipsglasses the Royal Copenhagen issued Shipsglasses is very different than the Lutken Shipsglass design not in shape but in weight and colour of the glass.
I think it is a matter of what you like about the Gulvvaser the original design thought out and blown by Otto Brauer or you like the "marketing" seller production around the Otto Brauer Gulvvase as it should be.
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I know what we're arguing here is semantics in any other context, but in the context of a glass website centred on research it matters who actually made the glass rather than the veracity of the design when it is reproduced by other companies.
So for purposes of research and reference I think it's important to dilineate original Kastrup/Holmegaard production from those produced by other companies, as these vases have their own history to be uncovered.
And even old versus new production within the same company matters, as you pointed out - you've probably noticed as a dealer that it's easier to sell, for example, old Danish-made Arne bowls than it is to sell newer poorer-quality Provence bowls outsourced to Poland because educated collectors know to differentiate between them.
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I know what we're arguing here is semantics in any other context, but in the context of a glass website centred on research it matters who actually made the glass rather than the veracity of the design when it is reproduced by other companies.
So for purposes of research and reference I think it's important to dilineate original Kastrup/Holmegaard production from those produced by other companies, as these vases have their own history to be uncovered.
And even old versus new production within the same company matters, as you pointed out - you've probably noticed as a dealer that it's easier to sell, for example, old Danish-made Arne bowls than it is to sell newer poorer-quality Provence bowls outsourced to Poland because educated collectors know to differentiate between them.
I am in it for the history of Danish Glassworks and being a small country actually none of the glassworks back in time do have been mixed together or taken over by the major glassworks and they have changed name several times and also part of production have been moved from en factory to another together with employes.
Holmegaard Glasswork did found Kastrup Glasswork in 1847.
Odense Glasswork was founded in 1873 but went bankrupt and was bought in 1890 and now with the name Fyens Glasswork, in 1899 they bought Rosdala Glasbrug, Sweden.
In 1907 did many Glassworks in dk merge it was Fyens Classwork (with Aarhus Glasswork that Fyens has bought earlier), Kastrup Glasswork and Hellerup Glasswork the year later also Aalborg Glasswork was part of this merger.
After this there were only to major Glassworks in dk Holmegaard Glasswork and the merge company Kastrup Glasswork (consist of Aalborg, Aarhus Glasswork in Jutland - Fyens Glasswork on Fyhn - Kastrup Glasswork and Hellerup Glasswork on Sealand.
That brings me back to the Otto Brauer gulvvases because he is from Fyens Glasswork and the gulvvases has been produced at that factory, so gulvvases with Kastrup labels is not produced on the Kastrup Glasswork but on Fyens Glasswork but they still are Otto Brauer Design as well as that if Cascade has license to produce Otto Brauer design in uk, thats the history point of view and not the money point of view.
Think collectors mostly would like to have items as close to design year if possible if not unika items, but I also think that a collector of gulvvases would like to have/shown the range of for instance gulvvase to view the historical span.
I am not sure that high price allways state originality, rare, unike, one of a kind could simply also be that is a trend that many wants, maybe in some years time your UK Cascade will be the trend and not low end.
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I wonder if we're scaring the 'normal' collectors yet? ;D
The primary difference between the Kastrup vases made at Fyens and the Cascade vases made in England is that the English ones were never, as far as I know, sold as Kastrup/Holmegaard vases originally - they were all tagged with 'Cascade - England' labels and bore no mention of Danish design.
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I wonder if we're scaring the 'normal' collectors yet? ;D
The primary difference between the Kastrup vases made at Fyens and the Cascade vases made in England is that the English ones were never, as far as I know, sold as Kastrup/Holmegaard vases originally - they were all tagged with 'Cascade - England' labels and bore no mention of Danish design.
Ha, yes I did give that a thought, but it is a interesting subject and we have had lots of interesting subjects on emails too and think it is very good to have issues turned around and upside down and it always brings along new knowledge and points to look into.
Have not have the pleasure to see a labeled Cascade vase in dk yet, maybe because we often here in dk, having a present or buying, do remove the label and wash the item before it go into use.
Maybe Cascade uk have bought the rights to produce the gulvvase design for the uk market instead of a license and therefore you can find so many different colours in a not equal HG quality, that could be a possibility too.
Thanks for your op-ion and thoughts Nic, looking forward to the next issue, perhaps we should keep it to email :thup:
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No, do it in public, then nosey people like me can read all about it (and hopefully learn something). ;D
John
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That brings me back to the Otto Brauer gulvvases because he is from Fyens Glasswork and the gulvvases has been produced at that factory, so gulvvases with Kastrup labels is not produced on the Kastrup Glasswork but on Fyens Glasswork
Oh, a query about Otto Brauer. Lis Larsen at Holmegaard said that he started at Odense Glasværk in 1931, then went to Kastrup Glasværk in 1936, where he became Master Glassblower in 1946... is this information incorrect?
Incidentally, this is my 18" Cobalt gulvvase with Kastrup label...
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That brings me back to the Otto Brauer gulvvases because he is from Fyens Glasswork and the gulvvases has been produced at that factory, so gulvvases with Kastrup labels is not produced on the Kastrup Glasswork but on Fyens Glasswork
Oh, a query about Otto Brauer. Lis Larsen at Holmegaard said that he started at Odense Glasværk in 1931, then went to Kastrup Glasværk in 1936, where he became Master Glassblower in 1946... is this information incorrect?
Incidentally, this is my 18" Cobalt gulvvase with Kastrup label...
I do not know, have no employment records, so I can not comment on the Lis information. It is a bit difficult, because I have to know what precise we are talking about or it do not make much sense.
The big merge between several Glassworks in 1907, "De forenede Glasværk (Aalborg, Aarhus and Fyens)" and "Kastrup Glasværk, Frederiksberg Glasværk, Hellerup Glasværk" this company got the name "A/S Kastrup Glasværk"
In 1965 to 1979 did "A/S Kastrup Glasværk" merge with "Holmegaard Glasværk" in the new company name "Kastrup Holmegaard Glasværk"
In 1979 did the plant/factory Kastrup Glasswork close and only the plant/factory in Odense (Fyens Glasværk) and in Fenmark (Holmegaard Glasværk)
Otto Brauer was hut master in Odense (Fyens Glasværk) in 1952 and the literature says that late in the 1950s did he get his Internationale known gulvvase in production.
Also I may ad that a big part of Jacob E. Bang artglass designs from "A/S Kastrup Glasværk" (this shall be read as the Company) was produced at the plant in Odense (Fyens Glasværk) read as plant/factory - such as Natblå serie, Antikgrøn serie, Capri and so on.
Buy the way Michael Bang was employed in 1958 and did work at the Odense Plant/factory too.
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Hullo Peter.
More succintly, the information that I have from Lis is that Brauer was at the factory in Odense from 1931 - 1936, and then moved to the factory in Kastrup from 1936 onwards, becoming Master there in 1946.
For Michael Bang, I have Odense 1968 - 1974, then Fensmark 1974 - until around 2000/2002. Prior to this he worked in ceramics (RC and Bjorn Wiinblad), and in glass at Ekenas, Sweden, from 1966-68.
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Hullo Peter.
More succintly, the information that I have from Lis is that Brauer was at the factory in Odense from 1931 - 1936, and then moved to the factory in Kastrup from 1936 onwards, becoming Master there in 1946.
For Michael Bang, I have Odense 1968 - 1974, then Fensmark 1974 - until around 2000/2002. Prior to this he worked in ceramics (RC and Bjorn Wiinblad), and in glass at Ekenas, Sweden, from 1966-68.
Type error there MB not 1958 but 1968.
I can not say only that Otto Brauer was hut master in Odense (Fyens Glasværk) in 1952 and the literature says that late in the 1950s did he get his Internationale known gulvvase in production.
Have not seen any documentation the time periodes of employment for OB so I am not abel to confirm that it will just be guess work, but 1952 i was working in Odense.
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What's your reference for the late-1950s production of the OB gulvvase? DG 1925-85, as well as a few other sources, state it as 1962.
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What's your reference for the late-1950s production of the OB gulvvase? DG 1925-85, as well as a few other sources, state it as 1962.
As you can see of the catalogue Otto Brauer do not appear as designer of the floorvases, it simply says Household articles in 1973-1976 catalogue it says "Art glassware from Holmegaard. Designed by well-known Artists" but no mention of Otto Brauer so I do not think that it has been a easy way to get this "spare time" vase to become a part of production, maybe it all is a coincident that the vase at all became a production item, I don't know.
I know that reference here and there are 1962 and that is what I do my self, but that was more based on the oldest catalogue in where to find gulvvaser and often items can be a couple of years under way before there appear in catalogue, but I am sure that I shall have that changed to perhaps 1958 instead and the source is "Fyns Glasvenner" they specialise in Fyens Glasswork.