Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: JOBLINGLASS on July 19, 2016, 09:51:47 AM
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Hello,
I have a Jobling Opalique Elephant statuette No.10700 marked on the leftside front leg Reg Des which appears in the 1934 catalogue.
However, I have noticed a variant of this statuette that is mounted on a rectangular base similar to the later Bear statuette No.10730.
My elephant statuette is the first photo and the second photo is of the variant taken off the internet which I presume is a later model.
Could anybody who owns the variant model on the base confirm if the two elephants are the same size and a base has just been
added to the original early original model No.10700 for some reason.
Many thanks,
William
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Hi, and welcome. :)
I'm afraid I cannot help with your query, but we do need to ask you if you have copyright permission to post the image you found on the web?
We cannot allow folk to post images here without copyright, it could get the board into all sorts of legal problems.
It is perfectly fine to link to a page containing the image, that way the copyright owner is still credited.
I'm going to have to ask a moderator to remove the image, sorry.
Can you find the page you found it on, and post a link to that, please?
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As noted there were two versions produced.The elephants themselves are identical the only difference being where they are cut off (plus possibly different plungers were used looking at the different depths of the concavity under the elephants' bodies). I don't know if one is earlier than the other but I have a version with the larger base with a "Regn. Appld For" mark showing it to be early production from before the registration number was added to the mould.
The second image posted is mine and as Sue noted it's better to ask permission before using photos from other sources. However I'm happy for the image to be used here so there's no need for it to be taken down this time.
Another view:
http://www.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery/displayimage.php?pos=-22511
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Thanks, for both the info. and for the permission to use your image, Steven. :)
I've asked a moderator not to remove it, after all.
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Hello Steven,
I am really sorry to have used your photo without your permission but I was looking for a photo of the elephant with the rectangular
base so I did a Google search for "JOBLING OPALIQUE ELEPHANT" and selected Google IMAGES key at the top of the search and it
gave two images of your elephant and there was NO COPYRIGHT marker on the image so I selected one of the images and posted it not
knowing that I was a copyright photo.I think Google should check that they do not put COPYRIGHT photo's on their search results.
I do apologise for using your image.
I will only use my own images in future.
Kindest Regards,
William
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Hello William, welcome to the Board.
Thanks for your comments about your use of Google images and the fact that there was no copyright marker on the image you chose. This is something that many people have a misunderstanding about. In fact, it is not a requirement within the UK and USA for there to be a copyright marker added to an image (or other copyright work) as the copyright is regarded as implicit unless stated otherwise.
But it is a difficult subject as there as different rules in many countries. For the purposes of the GMB, the position on copyright is a set out in the Information, Help & Announcements forum, in the topic: ADMIN: Using Copyright Material (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,24434.0.html)
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Isle of Wight Glass Museum has two of these elephants in its collection. I have a vague memory that they have Regn Appld For on them, indicating early production, but I would have to check. My records just say catalogue No.10700, designed by Etienne Franckhauser, and registration no. 795793 for 22 August 1934.
By the way, the museum has a nice collection of Jobling and we are still adding pieces.
Anton
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it may have limited interest here, but I had it in mind when I next visit Kew to post a image of the original factory drawing/photo, held by The National Archives, which would have been submitted in August 1934, for this Registration.
In view of Steven's comments, am sure this will show the model with the larger base and the wording 'Regn. Appld. for - but good perhaps to know for sure.
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Thanks Paul, I would love to see the original registration images.
Here are the marks on the bottom of my early copy (large base)
:)
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Contrary to what might be thought from earlier comments, the National Archives image shows a model without the plinth - as you can see.
Bit over optimistic of me to think we might also see the wording - since the animal is standing then no chance of that, although would assume it carried the 'Regn. Appld. for.' version, since the model that we see in the Archives picture would doubtless have been made prior to the company being granted a Registration No.
Leave Steven to comment :)
You can just make out the African sun setting over the elephant's back. (assume it's an African elephant?)
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Hello,
In my first post I assumed that the Elephant without base was earliest form since it is pictured in the 1934 Jobling Catalogue without base and the other later base mounted animals don't appear until the 1935 Supplement Catalogue.Very interesting registration photo's.
Thank you for confirming this for us Paul.
Regards,
William
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Hello again,
Giving this more thought,could Jobling have applied for another Registration around 1935 (23.1 1935) for the later Elephant with the plinth along with the other plinth mounted animals and that is why the later model is marked "Regn. Appld For" but sometime after application had been made being told that there was no need to register the plinth model separately and that the original Reg. Des.795793 also covered the plinth model.
Regards,
William
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Thanks Paul, very interesting to see the original photographs.
Personally I think it's more likely that both versions were available from the outset. I can't see Jobling applying for another registration just to cover the base. They certainly didn't re-register the open footed vase when the base was added and I'm not aware of different registrations for the two variants of the B2 vase/ lamp base (although there were apparently two separate registrations for the 11700 vase variants although I seem to recall they were registered at the same time and I've never been unable to establish whether the first actually went into production). The Jobling catalogues are not comprehensive and we already know there are several designs and variants of known models which weren't catalogued (e.g. flower salad drainer, fir cone and flower vases, etc.).
Interestingly around the same time Verlys made an elephant and calf figure which also comes in two versions: one with a base and one without. Perhaps one was intended to use as a paperweight and the other as a decorative figure?