Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: ttttootall on September 18, 2011, 12:53:05 PM
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I have recently acquired a vase I need help in identifying.
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Hi and welcome.
Your location on the planet might help as a starting place - and a good clear picture of the base would also help.
From what I can make out, I would suspect very modern and from the far east. This strapped effect is one I've seen a lot in TKMaxx - including middle sections in vases with nothing under the strapping.
I have only seen diatreta used in the context of "cage" cups and bowls - where the strapping is set far from the internal piece kind of on "sticks" of glass embedded into the internal bit.
This is a pic of a (pate-de-verre) cage bowl belonging to the Dan Klein Collection in Edinburgh Museum.
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Lot#: 180
Description: Frederick Carder Steuben Diatreta vase
Images:
AUCTION INFORMATION:
Name Saturday, May 23, 2009
Date(s) 23 May 2009
Location PO Box 549
33 Golden Hills Dr.
Mountain City, GA
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9" tall with threaded bowl inside lattice. No marks on bottom other than mostly polished pontil.
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This may be a better pic.
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In the Corning Museum of Glass dictionary pages, they give a defintion under "diatreta" as (apparently) speficifc to Frederick Carder for pieces made by the lost wax process. The CMOG definitions give "Diatretum" for the "cage cup" type of vessels.
http://www.cmog.org/dynamic.aspx?id=262#d
The vase shown here does not seem to be of the "cage cup" type so maybe it is a Frederick Carder item?
But it seems to me to be open lattice worked as a self-supporting structure attached to the inner body only at the upper and lower sections - and perhaps that could have been formed by direct application of hot glass, progressively worked from the lower section to the upper, rather than by a lost was wax process.
I think more detail is needed about how the lattice work is actually formed and how and where it is attached to the inner body.
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A base shot would be useful too please. For the inner to be threaded, the outer must be applied lattice work.
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Can we assume your second posting is the auction description of this actual piece, and that is what you bought it as?
Your newer image is far better - it doesn't look like modern far eastern at all - not any more. :thup:
I can't see your base shot, would you please add it to the posting directly?
The base shot is essential - how a pontil mark is polished or treated or not is vital for most identifications.
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Base pic...
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More base...
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That looks as if it's a polished (almost) round pontil mark.
Somebody going to the trouble of polishing it nicely like that is an indication of quality.
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Here is a photo of Carder diatreta at CMOG. The vase in question doesn't look like diatreta to me - different process of construction. Lovely piece anyway!
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Someone put a lot of work into that vase so not likely to have been produced in any quantity. Unfortunately, the best clue to origin would be from the inner vase that hardly shows in any of the images and would probably be hard to photograph.
I would look to Murano or an artisan-based studio artist 70s-80s.
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Larger pics...I hope :ooh:
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i haven't seen anything like this in Murano glass.
The white lines on the inner tube of the vase,,are they applied or in the glass ?
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Applied...outside of inside cup/vessel.
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Hello
Have you contacted the Corning Museum of Glass concerning this item? They have fantastic resources concerning Stueben and Carder designs.
Do you want to ask a curator a question?
Email: curatorial@cmog.org
Sid
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Not "Diatreta" but still looking for answers as to a maker.
Could not get a positive answer from "Corning Museum".
Still searching...
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If there is a space between the lattice and the inner vase, then it could be called diatreta. Presumably Steuben was eliminated? Surely going to be hard to ID though. Nice piece to own.
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Yes, not only is there a space between the lattice and the inner bulb, but the vase inside has threading around the entire outer part of its body. This can be seen pretty well in the pictures about four posts back.
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Barry Sautner made some authentic Diatetra cups and maybe a vase or 2. I think that one of Barry's pieces may be in Corning Museum. Barry engraved, sandblasted and etched his pieces as this was the way that it is surmised the original diatetra cups may have been made after they had been cast.
This vase shown could very well be Czech as I have seen Petr Novotny make some similar items. The original vase is blown then an additional gather is applied in the up and down configuration making the "lattice" type decoration. This one looks like this was done in 2 different colors of glass and layered on separately.
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Petr Novotny works are beautiful. Thank you for all the information. Never really thought to look further than this side of the pond. No reason why, so now the search continues.