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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Unresolved Glass Queries => Topic started by: Anne on October 27, 2005, 10:19:02 PM

Title: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Anne on October 27, 2005, 10:19:02 PM
Quote from: Bernard C
and look out for SOS lidded cube sugars with integral sprung tongs — as both Davidson and Walsh made them (yes, Walsh did make pressed glass tableware),
Bernard C.  8)

I have one of these (not Spiderweb) which I have been trying to identify a maker for... I didn't know Walsh made these sugars as well, very interesting Bernard. :)
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-55 (http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-55)
Title: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Bernard C on October 28, 2005, 12:12:11 AM
Anne — unfortunately I don't recognise the pattern on your SOS cube sugar.

My two are:

Davidson — Fostoria American / Georgian pattern in flint, also made in jade (1931-34).   SOS lid marked "LLTD" on the side of the rim in relief, in a wide shield-shaped frame like a hallmark.

Walsh — as Reynolds fig.118 (i) which shows a conventionally metal lidded preserve jar with two rows of the pattern; this SOS cube sugar is lower and has just one row.   Identical SOS lid except marked "W L° C" in the first shield-shaped hallmark and then in a second rectangular one "A".   The tiny "O" in this mark could just be a badly formed "D" for Ltd.

I have looked for possible makers in Mappin's EPNS marks, but there are no obvious candidates.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2005, 07:38:28 PM
http://tinypic.com/f27ntu.jpg

Bernard. This is a sugar lump bowl I picked up yesterday for 75p Is it English or American? There are some markings in between the 'petals' of the sunburst  base but I can't quite make them out.
The base is heavily scratched suggesting some use and some age. Would you put this one as the 30's?
The lid markings are the same as you describe with the two shields. One elongated and one small square.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Doris
Title: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Bernard C on October 28, 2005, 08:27:25 PM
Doris — thanks for the photograph, particularly showing the maker's mark on the lid.

Again, as with Anne's example, I don't recognise the pattern.    It looks English or mainland European to me.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2005, 08:50:14 PM
Thanks for your reply Bernard. My feeling is English and I am sure this design  I have seen on a wine glass somewhere but where :?
Will let you know if I do find out.

Cheers
Doris
Title: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Anne on October 28, 2005, 09:36:09 PM
Thank you Bernard. I checked the lid again in case I'd missed a mark but there is nothing on the lid either.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Anne on March 22, 2008, 03:50:11 AM
This is an old old topic resurrected, as I spotted what I thought to be also a sugar tong bowl but it has a sprung spoon instead of tongs like mine: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300207110659

Is the spoon version still intended for sugar or would it have been for something else?  And are the spoon versions less common than the tongs? (I've not seen the spoon version before.)
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Ivo on March 22, 2008, 06:58:11 AM
Misssed this thread the first time around, thank you for rekindling. So what about this one, then. The lid is silver plate and has tons of marks, the whole thing has tons of quality.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Bernard C on March 22, 2008, 07:32:08 AM
Anne — Like you, I've never seen a sprung spoon before.   That's quite the weirdest implement I've ever seen.   How did they manage to persuade someone to buy that.    It must have been brilliant salesmanship!   How about one of a set?   You can sell anything, however impractical, if it's one of a set.   My OH's matching stainless steel palette knife, ladle, and potato masher set has a point at the end of each handle (think about it).   ... and I don't recognise the pattern.

Ivo — Can't read the marks on the lid.   Have you checked Mappin?   The pattern could be Walsh — I have a marked trinket box in a similar pattern that I can't find in Reynolds.   The difficulty is that it's one of those fairly universal patterns that several glassworks could have made.   Walsh marks can be very faint.   Needs a perfect base star — any irregularity and it's not Walsh.    Could it be pressed?

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Ivo on March 22, 2008, 08:10:17 AM
Definitely cut crystal, not pressed. There are 2 hallmarks on the outside of the lid, one says "wL*g" the other "A".
The text on the mechanism reads

E.P.N.S. Pat. No. 14048/15
The S.O.S. Pascall's Patents


Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Bernard C on March 22, 2008, 08:20:18 AM
Ivo — Could it be the same mark on the metal as mine?   See reply #1 above.

As for Walsh pressed, it is so good that I have a real struggle at times convincing buyers that it is pressed.   Look for slight wavyness on the cut facets and a lack of the faint striations you get with hand-polished cut.

Walsh pressed is quite scarce.    I've never bought a piece that wasn't described as cut glass.   If you find an example you will be amazed at the quality, only matched by C19 Manchester pickle jars and cruet bottles, equally astonishing.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Anne on March 22, 2008, 03:12:47 PM
Thanks Bernard, I'm glad it's not just puzzling me.  One of a set would make sense - perhaps one with tongs for sugar lumps for your tea, and the other with a spoon for demerara for your coffee?  Very civilised! :)
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Ivo on March 22, 2008, 06:46:36 PM
The mark is identical to the one you describe - which says nothing about the glass underneath. Mine is really cut -  you'll just have to assume I know my onions.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Bernard C on March 23, 2008, 06:03:09 AM
Quote from: Ivo
... you'll just have to assume I know my onions.

Ivo — I wasn't doubting your skills at all in relation to glass (or vegetables).    It's just that having seen some of the most experienced (and honest) glass dealers in the world taken in by Walsh pressed imitation cut, I wanted you to re-consider your sugar and re-examine it with an open mind, an exercise which can be quite difficult, particularly for those who have already convinced themselves otherwise.

Bernard C.  8)
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Ivo on March 23, 2008, 06:34:25 AM
all cuts, squares, mitres and planes have been hand cut. All edges have been triple beveled, plano and inside/ outside angled.  The neck has not been touched by the wheel and it is not perfectly round, just like you would expect from blown glass. The item is hollow. There is a tenfold symmetry. And so I'll stick to the opinion that it is cut, not pressed.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
Post by: Bernard C on March 23, 2008, 08:43:35 AM
Ivo — Thanks.

Hopefully our discussion will encourage others to examine their cut glass and find interesting examples of fine quality pressed glass.   See also:-

  • Reynolds p38 for two Walsh patterns illustrated in both cut and pressed versions.
  • Thompson p50 for a Percival Vickers pressed cruet bottle with cut shoulders and stopper.
  • Optic pressed ale glass = (Rummer) Thomas Gammon (http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,8995.0.html) for an early pressed example of a traditional cut pattern.

    • Bernard C.  8)
    Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
    Post by: Frank on March 23, 2008, 10:56:21 AM
    Edinburgh Crystal pressed and cut.
    http://www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=35
    Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
    Post by: jeanne on October 15, 2018, 11:43:06 AM
    Hello
    Just found this thread.
    Can I refer people looking for hallmarks, silver plate marks to the ‘silvercollection’ website, absolutely brilliant. Those Pascalla patent sugar cube lids marked W Ld C. A are by William Coulthard Ltd active from 1909.
    Hope this is useful.
    Jeanne
    Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
    Post by: Anne on October 15, 2018, 03:00:04 PM
    That's super info, thanks Jeanne.
    Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
    Post by: Tigerchips on October 17, 2018, 09:20:34 PM
    Don't think i've see this post before, just wondering if this is your pattern Anne?

    I bought them as a pair years ago, probably don't have them now though. Mine were marked 'MADE IN ENGLAND' on the base.
    Title: Re: Sugar Bowls
    Post by: Anne on October 18, 2018, 02:15:15 AM
    Hi TC, no mine's not half as fancy as that. That's a real corker of a colour, isn't it?